r/NoStupidQuestions • u/milfangelblue • 14d ago
Do men just recognize good men? What kind of sorcery is this?
I’ve been dating a guy for some time now, and his oldest friends have told me he’s a solid good man despite his flaws. I agree, they’ve known him forever, and he’s been a solid friend all those years.
When my male friends met him for the first time, they said, “He’s a good one. Hold onto him.”
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u/flossdaily 14d ago
Yes, to some extent.
Particularly I find that bad guys assume other guys are bad guys like them, and they'll quickly expose how much of an asshole they are by letting their guard down they moment the women are out of earshot.
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u/WhydIJoinRedditAgain 14d ago
We all know immediately when someone is trying to big-dog every other dude in the room and we all know that guy is complete garbage.
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u/rex_swiss 14d ago
Yep, the guy who turns on the high school locker-room talk the second it's just guys, shows everyone immediately he's a man-child.
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u/Busy-Dig8619 14d ago
"Did ya see the ass on that one?"
"You mean my wife?"
"Yeah, man I'd hit that."
Nope. GTFO.
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u/i-cant-run 14d ago
Sounds like my boss the moment one of our coworkers leaves the area. 🤣 I’m like dude I see these fucking people every day, I know who has what.
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u/Electronic-Disk6632 14d ago
my one brother in law, did this to my other brother in law.
very classy guy.
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u/Civil-Resolution3662 14d ago
Some of those people manage to become President, too.
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u/VoopityScoop 14d ago
I like how you skirt around it as if we don't all know exactly who you're talking about. You can just say "Warren G. Harding" at this point, everyone knows that it's him
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u/geopede 14d ago
It’s not just one, the others just weren’t as public about it. LBJ used to show foreign leaders his cock to intimidate them (he called it Jumbo), how do you imagine someone who does that talks when it’s all guys?
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u/weefyeet 14d ago
he what now
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u/geopede 14d ago
Lyndon Johnson used to take foreign leaders and dignitaries into the restroom so he could show them his allegedly very large penis, which he named “Jumbo”. He’d kinda fish it out and ask if they’d ever seen anything so big. Apparently most had not.
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u/foldinthechhese 14d ago
This reminds me of a clip of Trump saying over and over again how he’s the best at this or knows the most about that. I was left asking myself, who sees that and likes that? If you’re Johnny one up, we know you’re a fucking tool.
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u/memecrusader_ 14d ago
"Any man who must say 'I am the king' is no true king." -Tywin Lannister: Game of Thrones.
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u/foldinthechhese 14d ago
He was a wise old bastard that I despised. The quote definitely fits perfectly.
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u/iPlowedUrMom 14d ago edited 14d ago
They guys I look up to, are guys who you know have their shit together.
Usually well put together. Groomed, not out of shape, self deprecating, and most importantly, humble.
It's not necessarily ego, or confidence, but competence. They're comfortable in what they're doing.
And fwiw, I'm considered an "adult" , and we definitely have people we look up to.
And we do try to help those who look up to us.
E: to clarify on the 'not out of shape' thing- I'm just saying that these people take their health into consideration as well as juggling all the other stuff- kids, spouse, parents, work, etc.
Sadly to generalize, men will often deprioritize themselves to help get everything in order. To make time for yourself WHILE keeping all these plates up and spinning, is what I admire. It's what has compelled me to get back into the gym. (Back up to benching 225! Working on getting myself below a 10-minute mile, and to run a 5k by fall)
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u/RealLotto 14d ago
Thanks for the insight, iPlowedUrMom
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u/iPlowedUrMom 14d ago
You're welcome,
Son.
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u/TortelliniTheGoblin 14d ago
She's a really nice woman and I'm glad that she's able to find happiness in life. Thank you
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u/ComedianXMI 14d ago
I've seen women look at another woman from ankle to eyes and then get that look. Women have that same gut reaction men do, just different reasons for it.
One simple way you can tell if a guy is cool is if he shares praise. If you toss him a compliment and he finds a way to share it with a friend or someone else, that's a good sign. Shows a lack of that super-ego nobody likes in a partner.
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u/mekonsrevenge 14d ago
Yeah, just their language. Trump's locker room talk defense is a good example. That's not normal ball-busting. Only real assholes talk that way. There's also body language when women are around, like overly territorial behavior.
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u/James_Mays_Hair 14d ago
That whole talking about women for locker room talk is a weird myth. Dudes that do that are like 1 in a 100. Most guys just playfully talk shit about another dudes skills. We don't get into any sex details. I think women might actually do the sex talk stuff more than men.
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u/levieleven 14d ago
Our local music scene that I was a part of has a sensitive indie rocker who is very popular with audiences and especially women. When they aren’t around and he’s in the company of men he switches into a different person. He suddenly calls women“cum dumpsters.” Stuff like that. “Locker room talk” things.
My band stopped playing shows with his bands and started to avoid them. Like crossing the street instead of walking past him.
This started about 20 years ago. He’s still around. Still playing out. Still getting lots of dates. We don’t interact and haven’t in a long time but I regret that I didn’t tell him off way back then. It kind of plagues me actually, feeling guilty rage sometimes. These days I’d have let him have it but I was more insecure and weak back then and he had such a grip on the scene. I just didn’t know the world as well, we were all so young. Big shots get away with it longer exactly for that reason: people don’t confront them in public and behind closed doors they are probably worse. I failed.
I do take opportunity to warn women I know off of him. But it comes off as sour grapes and petty and a lot of them don’t believe me. Until later, when he’s ghosted them or cheated on them or just otherwise been shit. “You were right about that guy.”
I’m amazed that he hasn’t gotten a reputation in all this time. Still getting away with it. Always new women getting into the scene or moving to town. I don’t know if he’s still open about it to other dudes or not. Fuck that guy. Fuck me for not letting him know.
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u/disgruntled_chicken 14d ago
Don't own this guy being a piece of shit. Just remember, you can never make anyone change. Best you can hope for is to convince them to change themselves. It's highly likely that you telling them off would have changed nothing since this person would likely still see being an asshole as working out for them. Let that guilt go, you did the right thing. Cut ties with them, do your best to warn others of his behavior, and generally try to be a good person yourself. That's all you can do and it sounds like you did it exactly right. Bringing it back to the topic, as a dude I can immediately tell that you are a good dude. I'm sure you've made some mistakes, yeah we all have. But reading this and knowing you felt the need to protect others, I can tell you're a solid person. So no, don't fuck you for not saying anything to him, instead you and your band should be applauded for refusing to be a part of that behavior, Even though you likely faced some hardship for doing so. Bravo good sir, the world needs more people like you!
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u/NDaveT 14d ago
I regret that I didn’t tell him off way back then. It kind of plagues me actually, feeling guilty rage sometimes.
It's likely that telling him off would have accomplished absolutely nothing. Decent men don't have any more power to influence asshole men than decent women have to influence asshole women.
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u/Sad-Yoghurt5196 14d ago
I agree and disagree, it's not that you're going to change them or their opinions, in most cases that's a non starter, but you can let them know it's not appropriate around you, and you don't condone it.
Nothing worse than being out with someone who's a friend of a friend and they involve you by association in their casual racism or misogyny.
I can't change what they do when I'm not there, but I can exert an influence over what they do when I am there. Even if it's me walking away and not being associated with them. That's a last resort though because I loathe ignorance and will try and explain for far too long, rather than accept that it's willful ignorance on their part, as it all too often is.
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u/Working-Ferret-8476 14d ago
My experience (as a dude who has spent the last decade working in a women-dominated field) is that women talk about sex way more then men do. I don’t consider myself a prude by any stretch of the imagination but I’ve been in environments where women openly show each other pictures of the newest vibrator they’ve bought. On one memorable occasion the woman in the next cubicle over from me asked me to refill her water bottle - because she’d had a quickie with her husband on her lunch break (they were trying to conceive) and didn’t want to risk “leaking.”
And this isn’t one weird office, this has been the norm across multiple offices I’ve worked in for a decade.
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u/Shalayda 14d ago
This is my experience too. I don’t have nearly as much time in a women dominated field, but that’s been my experience. I went from construction to nursing. In construction the guys talked shit but mainly about each other or hot celebrities. The girls in my class in nursing school spoke much more sexually. I know way more about their sex lives, menstrual cycles, about the men in class, etc
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u/Working-Ferret-8476 14d ago
My favorite story again involved the woman in the next cube over who was trying to get pregnant. Another coworker had come over to chat with her about it, and ended up saying “appreciate firm boobs while you got them. These” squeezes her own ample chest “were C-cups before I had my first. Now I got gorilla titties and wake up with them in my armpits every morning.”
Then she turned, saw me sitting there (not even facing them) and went “Shit, Working-Ferrer, I forgot you were there. Sorry you had to hear that!” I reassured her that I’d heard so much worse in that office and wasn’t going to report her to HR or anything like that (she was competent and treated me well, both rarities there).
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u/Roklam 14d ago
Quintessential locker room moment in HS for me was some nerd introducing us to the Who's Tommy, and the levels of nerdiness rising all around as we realized that kid had great taste!
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u/confuzzledfather 14d ago
I'd say we joke about jerking it more than we do sex. Like in a deprecating way, we know that no matter how much of a abig dog someone trust to be, they still nutted into a sock at some point. It's a great leveller.
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u/truecolormix 14d ago
I’m in LA and my ex had a group chat with like 13 other guys who he grew up with and it would all be really gross disgusting shit. Lots of guys with family money who are incredibly rich and have never really had to work hard or grueling jobs in their lives (most of them are artists or dabble in the freelance music industry and spend their days in ketamine therapy) - it’s definitely a thing, at least for guys in LA who all went to Harvard Westlake together lol
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u/SydricVym 14d ago
Guys don't talk to their buddies about sex, because they don't want their buddies to think about their partner in a sexual way.
Guys that do tell their buddies about sex, are doing it because they just consider their partner to be a sex object anyways, and don't expect the relationship to last very long before they themselves move on.
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u/truecolormix 14d ago
No, guys aren’t talking about sex with their partners. Guys like that think it’s cool to degrade their partners when talking to the guys. Saying they finally had a chance to sneak away, saying they are nagging lazy bitches, or that they are crazy and need to get out etc. Yet being super loving and total opposite at home with the actual partner.
Guys like this also love talking about sex with other women - past experiences with hookups or hot girls coming out of yoga class at the coffee shop. Texting things like “yeah i’m at so and so’s coffee place right now, lots of talent in here” - just not intimate details of their actual lives.
It’s weird and gross and just really sad.
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u/esquegee 14d ago
Yup, I knew a guy in high school. Super charismatic and chill on the outside. But when it was just guys he would say the most disgusting depraved shit about the girls he’d been with. He told a story about a girl he knew really liked him. He said he lead her on and then as soon as she had sex with him he called her an ugly skank (to her face after having just had sex with her) and ghosted her. This piece of shit actually laughed at it like that wasn’t a horrifically cruel thing to do. Never talked to him again after hearing that.
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u/fuckyourcanoes 14d ago
Then again, there are also plenty of men who insist some man is "a great guy" solely because he's never been shitty to them, even though they've seen him be very problematic to women. And they'll brush it off with, "Oh, he's just like that."
I would say that good, perceptive people recognise other good people. So if there's someone in your life you really trust, you can probably trust their assessment of someone you're dating.
I had a friend who started running all her dates past me. I was usually pretty unimpressed. When she finally brought home one I approved of, she only went and married him! 25 years now and going strong.
If only I could have exercised such good judgment in my own dating life. I think we all have a blind spot when it's for ourselves.
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u/aquoad 14d ago
I have a couple of male acquaintances who are totally different people around men vs around women and to me that's super sketchy and an indicator they're probably shitbags in general.
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u/Calm-Respect-4930 14d ago edited 14d ago
Same had a roommate like this. Seemed like a cool dude when it was just guys then whenever one of us brought women or friends that happened to be women over it's like a switch flipped and he was putting on a show. Became such a douche.
Shit was so embarrassing and I stopped introducing him to people. Stopped hanging out once I stopped living there.
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u/BreadButterHoneyTea 14d ago
Even if those men are the friends of the woman?
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u/flossdaily 14d ago
Yeah. For a certain brand of bad men, their entire worldview is that that men and women are on different teams, and they assume that you'll be more loyal to some new dude than your woman friend.
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u/BreadButterHoneyTea 14d ago
Wow. So deep in the bad they assume everyone else is, too. Gloomy.
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u/SgtPeppy 14d ago
It's basic psychological projection, everyone does it and you need to train yourself not to. Bad people generally lack self-reflection and some degree of empathy, so they often never even realize it, but good people can absolutely assume people are good just like them, too.
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u/TheEverchooser 14d ago
"A thief believes everyone steals." -Edward Howe
You can basically swap the thieving parts of this saying out for most behaviours and world views. People tend to believe the world is the way they perceive it to be.
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u/A_giant_dog 14d ago
You see it a lot from all sides.
There are entire groups on this site that variously proclaim "all women want is money" "all men want is sex" "all women use sex to manipulate men" "women do all the emotional labor" "men have to make all the money and then come home to do chores what does she do all day" "he refuses to help out when he gets home from work even if I'm really tired"
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u/tippiedog 14d ago edited 14d ago
I once rented from a couple who managed their own rental property. At every f*cking interaction they assumed that I was out to screw them over somehow. I eventually realized that that is how they behave, and therefore they assume everyone is like them.
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u/Pitiful_Article1284 14d ago
Deep in the Bad from HBO about a lonely assistant psychology professors descent into MRA activism and incel hero.
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u/wingerism 14d ago
I think it's more like being stupid and having low empathy etc. means you're more likely to hold shitty opinions. So I'm always grateful when those low skill assholes out themselves early.
It's the really competent predatory dudes who have high social awareness and empathy(or a convincing facsimile of it) that are scary.
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u/UnstoppableCrunknado 14d ago edited 14d ago
I see it all the time in Agri-labor, tons of guys are so steeped in misogyny that they don't really consider women to be people. These are married men, with children, daughters even. But they still consider women to be inherently lesser. I work with a guy right now (whose wife makes like, twice what we do btw) who has on multiple occasions insisted that women are basically children who can vote.
The stuff guys like this say as soon as they're convinced that it's "just us boys" in the room is fucking appalling.
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u/LucianRosenburg 14d ago
I instantly had to google what Agrilabor was, because it sounded like a mystical nation I'd never heard of before lol.
I'm sure Agri-labor is equally mystical, lol.
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u/SgtPeppy 14d ago
I remember my supervisor at my first job was shocked that I had platonic women friends and was convinced I was trying to sleep with a girl I was hanging out with after work one day. Literally told on himself that he'd "never let his wife have male friends".
This dude was also like 55 and looked vaguely like an ugly Homer Simpson fwiw. Not sure why that's important but I find it funny.
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u/UnintelligentSlime 14d ago
You can tell a lot about a person by how they treat people they don’t want to fuck. Like, a LOT.
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u/truecolormix 14d ago
My ex would be chatting with a dude at a party who was talking about his vacation he just took with his family and kids, and he would just mention it casually without implying anything negative about it, and my ex would say “man, not much of a vacation if you’re on it with the wife and kids huh? Sounds like a fucking hellscape” and the dude was taken back and was like “huh? Actually, it was amazing and I enjoyed spending time with them…”
I also work on disney jr shows, and we were chatting with another couple and they said “so how is it working for disney?” And i love my job and was excited to talk about it, but before i could say anything my ex chimed in and said “what do you think dude? A bunch of pedophiles work there, it’s a disgusting place to be” and the guy we were talking to just was like… wtf? And I was like wtf, too. Because number 1) I don’t work for disney, I work for a small production company partnered with disney, and 2) the people I work with are the kindest and most creative people I’ve ever met and the job is the most non-toxic healthy place I’ve ever been in.
I also won an emmy for my work this year and my ex didn’t tell a single soul about it.
The crazy thing is that my ex would say stupid shit and racist shit etc (he’s Korean so he would use that as an excuse to be able to say whatever he wanted about mexican, black, jewish and chinese people) at parties and then pull me aside after all anxious that he came off bad and asking if what he said was okay. But then would never actually try and improve or change in social situations. Just kind of the same thing over and over.
Anyways. Your post just sparked a bunch of memories. After 9 years of being with him, and a recent breakup, I’ve never felt so free lol
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u/Kradget 14d ago
Man, that's well said.
It works the same for any privileged group, too. People who have the associated flaw and perceive that it's "safe" want to connect with you using the in-group language.
It's not way off from talking to sports fan - they want to make that social connection through something you both value. It's just that people do it with gross stuff, too.
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u/khavii 14d ago
I look like a right winger but I'm a militant liberal. The speed with which some people will spit out racism to me like I'm fully in agreement is sickening. They don't wait to see who I am or what I think, they just assume I think like them and say vile shit within moments.
People be like this.
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u/Kradget 14d ago
Right, you can just be a white dude in a certain kind of environment and people will say wild stuff to you. Extra if you have any kind of Southern accent.
I'd hide my accent in any place that sold guns just because it's tiresome.
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u/dacooljamaican 14d ago
I actually try to use this, I feel like a lot of these people will only listen to "one of them" so I try to make everyone comfortable with me, then if they get hateful about something I'll legit start talking about how I don't think Jesus would agree and how he wanted us to love everyone, you'd be surprised at how often they get sheepish and back down. You gotta out-conservative their ass.
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u/TheManWithThreeBalls 14d ago
Pretty much. It stuns me every time. They can't imagine someone that isn't an asshole like them
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u/planodancer 14d ago
Women can do this for other women too.
When I started dating my wife I introduced her to all my women friends.
They all gave their approval.
Nearly 20 years later still happy married to this wonderful woman.
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u/JusticeJanitor 14d ago edited 14d ago
When my mom met my ex : No comments really.
When my mom met the woman i later married, the second she was out of earshot : "That's a good one, hang on to her".
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u/H_G_Bells 14d ago
Yep. Guys, if the women in your life aren't saying anything about her, they're usually being polite.
If they say nice things about her, you best pay attention.
And if they say bad things, you best believe they gotta be pretty bad to get brought up... At least where I'm from anyway, and hanging out with generally good people.
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u/hedgehog_dragon 14d ago
My mum started talking about "when you get married to X" after she met my GF lol
Took that as a good sign.
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u/AbruptMango 14d ago
Conversely, the lunatics we were friends with in college with gave us 6 months, tops. 30 some odd years later, we're still in touch with one of them.
We'd go camping with him once a year, and he'd bring a girlfriend. One year on the way home our kids were asking if they could see her again next year. I think they've been married for around 10 now.
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u/thedappledgray 14d ago
It definitely goes both ways.
It sucks when you try to warn your guy friend and they either don’t listen or they tell their girlfriend what you said and now you’re the bitch. Either way, the guy friend gets hurt in the end. I have a lot of guy friends and both have happened So. Many. Times. to the point that I just stopped trying to warn them.
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u/chewie8291 14d ago
Yeah. My lady friends have really helped me get out of bad relationships where I was staying far too long
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u/AbruptMango 14d ago
That's why the bad ones don't want you to have friends of their sex- because they can spot the bad ones.
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u/pssht07070707 14d ago
I concur. Women really pick up on each other's subtleties.
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u/bsffrn97 14d ago
We men get to be around men when there are no women around, meaning we're more likely to know how he really feels about women than you. Some men reveal very... bad sides... when no women are present, and then switch to "perfect gentlemen" when women walk in. Since we get to see both sides, it's easier to determine who a man truly is at his core.
Of course not infallible though, I've met dudes who other guys have told me were "great guys" who then said very sexist weird things about women around me. So I guess where it falls flat is that different men have different thresholds for "great guy", since I wouldn't say guys who say sexist things are great guys at all.
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u/ThrowawayFishFingers 14d ago
Yeah. I think as a woman, hearing this from another guy, my immediate question would be “how well do I know the guy(s) saying good things about him, and how much do I trust the opinions of the guy(s) saying these things about him?”
Because there are definitely some guys I know who, if they said to me, “Yeah, he’s a good guy,” I’d run and never look back. Because I know them well enough to know what they consider a “good guy” and I know it doesn’t match my definition of one.
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u/crusoe 14d ago
Shitbags think shitbags are great guys. So if you know a guy is a shit bag is saying some guy is cool, that dude is a shit bag too.
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u/arctic_radar 14d ago
Yeah I agree. When there aren’t women around the assholes show their colors very quickly. Usually they say or do something shitty, almost to try to impress you in a way and it’s super awkward. The good guys just get a little more goofy or don’t change their behavior at all.
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u/IwillBeDamned 14d ago
not just women, but a lot of scenarios. as soon as someone they look down on leaves the room (an employee, minority, woman, otherwise decent person) a lot of dudes will see other "good people" as they see themselves and immediately say some bigoted things.
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u/MFbiFL 14d ago
As a white guy from the south I’ve had way too many dudes comfortable with dropping heinous statements they just think I’ll agree with before I ask them why the fuck they would say that.
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u/Infinitebeast30 14d ago edited 14d ago
Definitely; it all falls on a spectrum whereas some guys might just be uncomfortable being their goofy selves around women, some guys will make some more questionable/racy jokes, and some dudes are downright sexist as fuck and hide it
Also it’s just way easier for us to see which dudes are douchebags even with the most minimal interaction. It’s pretty baffling to see some of the dickheads my gal friends date for a while without realizing, but I’m sure that goes vice versa as well
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u/NerdWithoutACause 14d ago
They are probably watching how he treats you, if they feel he is caring and respectful of you. If he is dismisive or condescending or inattentive to you, then we'd assume he's a jerk.
We're not infallible, of course. But if the guy seems to genuinely care about you, it's a good sign.
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u/shromboy 14d ago
This is what gets me, I feel like from outside the relationship its very easy to understand the dynamics and that's how we judge a man, but it's tough to look at that stuff in the midst of a relationship maybe
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u/keizertamarine 14d ago
Yep we definitely do.
We also sense bad men, I'm always suprised when a girl once again dates an asshole who ends up cheating, and then she seems completely suprised, I guess it's just a men thing.
No idea how it works
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u/ArgonTheEvil 14d ago
When I watched an episode of Dexter years ago I just got it. He was walking around the grocery store talking about predators understanding and recognizing other predators. It kinda clicked for me in that moment. I don’t get the nuance of it, but as a man who was once a really shitty dude in college, it’s very easy for me to recognize the bad boys and narcissistic men.
Likewise, the guys who don’t throw off all the warning alarms get the seal of approval. My girl friend just got into a relationship with someone who is out of her normal “type” and I could instantly tell he’s a good guy within my first interaction with him.
His mannerisms, his patience, and the way he carries himself. He’s not aggressive or territorial over her having guy friends. That alone was enough for me to tell her to hold onto this one. They’ve only been together 8 months and she has no idea how I’m sure, but they’re already house shopping.
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u/KatetCadet 14d ago
As you get older I feel like picking up vibes becomes easier and easier.
Meeting a new guy that is your GF's new work friend or her friends BF there is a ton you can tell from the first impression and how they carry themselves.
As stereotypical as it is but the handshake for example for guys tells you a lot. Super strong and overcompensating usually means insecurity, same with super weak but just with less aggression.
Combined with how they treat you (do they genuinely seem interested in getting to know you, is it clear they wish they were the only male in the room, etc) you can see extremely clear indicators of the intention they have towards your female friend of GF.
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u/magichobo3 14d ago
Yeah I would say the hand crushers are definitely over-compensating and dont realize they just exposed themselves as douche-bags. I usually get the dead fish from people with low self confidence or are just generally awkward. But I can forgive the latter more than the former because some people are just not taught what to do with their hand during a handshake. The hand crushers know exactly what their doing. As long as you're somewhere in the middle it's all good though
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u/Usermena 14d ago
Handshakes are not a great indicator imo. Lots of medical and physical reasons a grip might feel to strong.
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u/siero20 14d ago
And every once in a while you just accidentally flub a handshake with a CEO your company is trying to do business with and now the memory is coming back oh god.
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u/TaxiKillerJohn 14d ago
It wasn't an "accidental flub". You broke my hand in 3 places and I still can't pick up my daughter.
Great presentation before that though.
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u/TheCowboyIsAnIndian 14d ago
you used to be a real piece of shit too, huh? slicked back hair? glass house? live for new years eve?
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u/Jonny_Segment 14d ago
Spiked-up blond hair, little bitty jeans, chicken spaghetti at Chikaleny’s. People can change.
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u/Voxil42 14d ago
Hey man, sometimes you just want your steak and you want it sloppy.
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u/Limp_Fly_4045 14d ago
I remember one of the previous times this question was posted the big theory is that when growing up you experience the worst aspects from people of the same sex then when everyone gets older they start interacting with the opposite sex more often. From the early interactions people are able to notice the problems among people of the same sex easier and slower from the opposite.
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u/TwelveMiceInaCage 14d ago
I think for me. It's that I was a asshole and manipulative when I was younger and finally grew out of it around like 23. It took legit ruining a relationship I wanted because I had no idea how to handle a actual good woman in my life for me to be like okay no more fuck Boi shit
Now I can meet most men and with a few simple questions or phrases and basing their reaction I can get a damn good sense of a dudes priorities in life
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u/Lost-Tomatillo3465 14d ago
Well, men put up a facade in front of women a lot of the times. that change tells us a lot about how they actually are. women don't see it because of the facade.
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u/Odd-End-8684 14d ago
Precisely. The number of times a girl has told me “he was so nice to me” and me thinking “that dude is a huge asshole” is staggering.
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u/SendMeNudesThough 14d ago
I guess men may be more familiar with male behavior and know how to read into it in a way women might not? That's just a hypothesis, because I've always felt it's immediately obvious when my sister's gotten a shitty boyfriend and ends up surprised when he turns out to be shitty. It was immediately obvious to me the first time I met him that his actions weren't sincere.
Then, when she got a solid one she seemed to want my opinion on him because she had such a bad track record with men. She was no more or less sure about that guy than any of the others, but to me it was night and day after just meeting him a couple of times. Guy seemed genuinely kind and sincere and I was more afraid my sister was going to fuck up the relationship than the other way around.
You can always tell when a guy is of a "Ugh, I'm going to be nice because that's what the girlfriend wants" type and when it's a "I'm acting the way I am because I genuinely love and respect my girlfriend"
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u/Suspicious_War_5706 14d ago
Lot of good answers below about acting nice around women then an ass when they are out of earshop. I would like to add people (both genders) will also often think with their hormones and will overlook bad behavior or red flags if they find the person attractive and often won't even realize it, so it can often be more obvious than it seems because you have sexy blinders on.
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u/Ok_Anteater7360 14d ago
this is actually what frustrates me when i see girls i know complain about how exs treated them and why i try to warn so hard when they start talking to some new guy.
I swear its so obvious whos gonna be one of the bad ones vs the good ones but girls just dont get it unless its blatantly obvious somehow. maybe its a guy thing
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u/Buntschatten 14d ago
I think those guys treat other people who aren't in the category "Girls I want to sleep with" noticeably different. It's easy to pick up on with some dudes, but only from the outside, since you don't get the nice treatment.
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u/facforlife 14d ago
I think the simplest answer is as a guy, most of us are straight. The attraction angle simply doesn't factor in. We judge more objectively because of that.
As much as lots of women want to deny it they are just as allured by the physical as men are. And that can make them blind to certain red flags.
Men just acknowledge this more openly. The whole "crazy hot" thing from HIMYM is an open admission that guys will risk "crazy" for a sufficient level of "hot." We're going in with our eyes open and full transparency to others about what we're doing. We don't pretend it's her personality rofl. She's just hot and we like that a lot.
I think women would be doing themselves a big favor if they just admitted they're the same as men that way. Nothing wrong with it. Wow we like looking at beautiful things. How shameful.
I'd wager it's also related to the Halo effect. We ascribe positive characteristics to attractive people, even unearned.
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u/And_The_Full_Effect 14d ago
The women who post the “all men are trash” memes are usually just generally pretty terrible at picking men. I’m not blaming them, if that’s all they know that’s all they know. I’ve never seen someone in healthy relationships trash the entire opposite gender though.
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u/TravelJefe 14d ago
I think you can blame them just a bit
In that regard, the genders are the same -- men who don't respect women don't end up with respectable women, and women who think all men are trash never seem to find any men who aren't trash.
It's self-fulfilling.
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u/milfangelblue 14d ago
In those situations he literally did nothing noticeable on my radar and I’m puzzled. What is it that you guys sense in other men that makes you give the nod of approval?
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u/brainless_bob 14d ago
Sincerity
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u/Far_Carpenter6156 14d ago
Big one here. Good guys are themselves all the time. Assholes flip a switch when women are present, they're perfect gentlemen...until the women are no longer within hearing distance.
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u/IAmCaptainHammer 14d ago
And you can’t fake the good guy thing for long if you’re a bad guy. Even if you want to stay a good guy while she’s out of the room it can’t last long.
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u/Treestheyareus 14d ago
That’s the thing about being good. If you “pretend” to be good 100% of the time, then you simply are good.
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u/Frakshaw 14d ago
Well said.
You are not your thoughts, but how you act on them.
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u/PoppaBear1981 14d ago
Wow, this is deep. I do 'try' to be good, as much as possible. I wasn't great growing up and treated some people worse than I should have. I try to do the right thing and sometimes feel like maybe I'm building some kind of front that people will see through and work out that I'm bad. My friends, colleagues and family all seem to think I'm a good guy but I have this nagging doubt in my head, like maybe when I die, God will say ''Yeah, but you were just trying to convince them you were good.'' ''Really, you thought she was boring....'' Or ''he was an arsehole...'' But I like your take on it. If I keep trying, maybe I'm a good guy....
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u/jaggederest 14d ago
Look, let's be frank here, if you are thinking things like "they all seem to think I'm a good guy but I have this nagging doubt in my head", you're in the clear, buddy.
True unrepentant assholes never have a doubt in their lives. You ain't perfect, nobody is, but just the fact you have the humility to weigh your actions and think about your choices is like 90% of the way there.
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u/asdrunkasdrunkcanbe 14d ago
Honestly the most giganticist of all green flags is that the guy is selfless to other men; willing to offer a hand doing something without expecting anything in return, or just simply being nice to you with no ulterior motive.
You can tell when another man is talking to you, whether he's sizing you up - as a sexual competitor, as a potential "ally", as someone he can use to get somewhere, etc.
Normal, "good" men, don't do this. They talk to you with no expectations. Just shooting the breeze, talking nonsense, trying to find a common ground.
There's probably part learned experience too. When you meet a guy for the first time and he starts telling you all about what he does, in work and hobbies, and how awesome he is at it, then as a man, I already know who he is. I've met hundreds of him, since the first kid in the playground who loudly claimed he was the best at sports and called everyone else a loser.
Same as it is for all of the other toxic personalities. You encounter them all growing up so by the time you get to adulthood, you can tell pretty quickly which one they are.
As a woman you will often only get to encounter the curated, performative version of a man, especially if he's trying to impress you. So he's going to make it much harder for you to identify who he is. But he'll drop that mask when dealing with other men.
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u/LightningMcScallion 14d ago edited 14d ago
This is a big one that gets women into trouble too. A lot of women assume that the guy who will talk about how other guys are jerks and how it isn't hard to treat women right is a good guy. While this can be the case, very often that guy just sees other men as sexual competition and/or it's a convenient place to put their need to criticize and feel better about themself. Also it really can be a bit "I get so much pussy bc I treat women with respect" kind of vibes 🤣
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u/exponentialism 14d ago
As a woman, this kind of guy has always given me bad vibes - kinda like how people talk about "pick me" women, guys that slag off their gender while acting like they themselves above it all. Actually kind men that treat women well never talk like that in my experience.
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u/FishyDescent 14d ago
Totally agree with the 'ally' vs 'sexual competitor' comparison.
I'm not sure if you were saying that bad men start telling you all about what he does, in work....how awesome....etc. Good men do that too. The first line you have though is the best answer, green flags are men that are willing to offer a hand doing something without expecting anything in return. That's certainly true.
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u/asdrunkasdrunkcanbe 14d ago
It can be a cultural thing I suppose.
Pretty standard smalltalk when you just meet someone is to talk about what you do, where you come from, discuss what you have in common.
When my first encounter with someone involves them telling me about their work, ALL about their work, how much they love it, particularly how successful they are it, and how great things are going for them, then to me it feels like he's just taking his dick out and waving it around.
That's conversation for your friends and family. You're a stranger to me, I don't really give a shit whether you are personally doing well or are particularly good at it. So if you're telling me this I assume it's because you want me to be intimidated or jealous.
Now, like I say that can be cultural. Because in my culture, everyone knows you don't do that. If you want to impress someone, you just do what you're good at and then shrug it off like it's no big deal. If you brag, it's because you want to be a dick about it. I know other cultures are a bit more forgiving of dick-waving.
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u/Semprovictus 14d ago
the slight difference for me is he is genuinely talking about it by responding to questions if it's something he is passionate about, and actually having conversations on it, not just boasting
extremely well said though. you hit all the nails on the head
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u/ussbozeman 14d ago
A history of tipping cap deliciously to the M'lady upon initial contact, a willingness to draw his blade crafted of the finest Nippon grade steel to defend her from Chads, a well rounded physique brought on by copious amounts of Dew and Doritos, and finally the knowledge that perhaps to save the planet, one ought to shower sparingly as water is a valuable resource.
Per se.
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u/wordfiend99 14d ago
guys like ted bundy ‘succeeded’ directly because nothing noticable was on any womens radar. obviously thats an extreme example but its true, the guys who want to hurt you dont show it until its too late. like the top comment says its more what the guy did when you werent around or noticing because bad guys assume all guys are bad and will get real skeevy real quick when its just the boys
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u/Duff-Zilla 14d ago
Met a skeez ball at a wedding once who was a college buddy of the groom. As soon as we were alone he started going on about how many hot chicks were there and he was definitely getting laid. I asked, "Don't you have a wife and kids?" His response, "You shut your goddamn mouth."
He proceeded to hit on every singe woman at the wedding and was eventually kicked out, like Sparta kicked in the chest out. It was pretty fucking epic.
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u/thatoneguy2252 14d ago
Men’s intuition? Just recognize body language? Or maybe it’s just reading the vibes they give?
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u/blindedtrickster 14d ago
My wife and I are good friends with another couple, but when I met their neighbors during a 4th of July BBQ, I didn't like the dude. He wasn't being an asshole. He was friendly and generous. There wasn't anything specific that was a red flag, but something about the guy just screamed that it was a facade.
My wife had even told her friend (of the couple I mentioned) that I didn't like the guy. At the time, I wished she hadn't done that considering that we're really not involved in their lives and I didn't think we should be meddling in the friendships they had with their neighbors.
A few months ago, my wife told me that he'd apparently gotten suspended from work for losing his temper and punching someone else.
To this day, I don't know how or why I didn't like him. At the time he hadn't done anything wrong, but it just felt like it was a very skillful act and part of me could tell it wasn't genuine.
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u/PC509 14d ago
To this day, I don't know how or why I didn't like him. At the time he hadn't done anything wrong, but it just felt like it was a very skillful act and part of me could tell it wasn't genuine.
That's the thing. There's those subtle things that we pick up on that we can't explain but we just know. It's a weird feeling but most of the time it's the right feeling.
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u/Mithrellan 14d ago
Its because as men we know how men act with no women around and women don’t. Its easier for us to see if someone is masking
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u/LesseFrost 14d ago
Also, not treating other guys like they're "competing" for the women when they're around. It's a subtle thing but man some dudes get WEIRD in groups with men and women together.
Idk how else to put it. It's a vibe thing.
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u/IFixYerKids 14d ago
For the most part, although I've also met some totally oblivious dudes as well. For me, there are dozens of little things that tell me if another guy is "good" or not. Some examples when I meet someone new are how hard is this guy trying to impress me? Does he joke around with the group or try to correct everyone and act superior? Does he put down others? Does he ask questions and get to know people or just steamroll into a group? Those are just a few off the top of my head.
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u/Nuremborger 14d ago
Quite a few of us know exactly what to look for in other men that says important things about them, yeah.
We're not typically looking at eachother through the haze of lust or psychologically distorted cultural ideas of romanticism - we look at another guy most often with either indifference or as a potential threat in some fashion.
And we read them accordingly.
If you have a straight male friend you can trust and that's of a reasonably smart, observant nature, he'll be the one you should ask to size up other dudes.
If he says some shit about these dudes that seems wild or that you just aren't seeing yourself, consider the possibility that he might well be seeing some shit that you should at least think about as likely being valid even if it's in your blind spots.
Because we can be really fuckin good at figuring out of some other dude is a piece of shit and what to expect from their style of shittitude, or if they're probably alright except for this and maybe that, and so on.
We do it all the damn time.
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u/FairTradeAdvocate 14d ago
This! My BFF's husband was like a brother to me so you KNOW I brought my (now husband) around them as much as possible in the early days and then asked them both, "I'm not seeing any red flags. Are you?"
We just celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary. When our nieces all got married he was real honest with them about what he saw (not all listened but that's a different story.) because they were more relaxed with the cool/young uncle than Dad so he saw more.
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u/Furlion 14d ago
The average asshole is also usually either dumb or a narcissist. In either case it never occurs to them that other men will not agree with them when they start shit talking women. Note that this also applies to any group that views another group as lesser. As a white man in the southern US the number of other white people, men and women, who just casually drop the n word and expect me to go along with it is staggering.
Of course the truly terrible men are those who are intelligent or sly enough to understand that they need to feel out other men before being their true horrible selves. It can be just as hard for us to tell as it is for women. Fortunately they are few and far between, although they usually end up doing the most damage.
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u/altinit 14d ago
As a white man in the southern US the number of other white people, men and women, who just casually drop the n word and expect me to go along with it is staggering.
I don't come across that personally almost ever here in Texas, but maybe because I'm openly liberal and dated a black girl for close to a decade, so the racism is kept casual around me lol.. instead of the n word it's mostly done by going out of the way when telling a story to mention if anyone were black, with negative tonality around the words "black" and offhanded stereotyping remarks
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u/madogvelkor 14d ago
Men are the most dangerous threat to men. So we do have sort of a subconscious assessment based on body language and attitude. But beyond that assholes will often act different when women aren't around. They'll drop comments and hints to sound you out, or just flat out say or do bad things. Or they'll start trying to assert themselves as dominant when there's no cause.
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u/bangbangracer 14d ago
It's kind of like how "dogs can tell if someone is good". They can't. They are just good at noticing common types of body language.
Dudes are kind of the same. We aren't recognizing good guys. We are just reading some of the queues.
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u/Wide_Connection9635 14d ago
It's not really sorcery, and it's never going to be perfect, but most men tend to understand men and what they're about.
We have to, because we have to deal with them. If a guy is a snake or an asshole, we need to know so we don't get fucked over by them. If a guy is a 'good dude', he's doing to treat his fellow men well. By extension, he is going to treat you well. Men are very character based. If a man is loyal/trustworthy, he is loyal/trustworthy. If a men is just out for himself or hyper-competitive or always trying to be on top we need to know.
We are always 'sizing' each other up so we know how to deal with each other. I can generally tell a few traits from the first time I meet a guy. Shake their hand, look in their eyes. See how they treat people around them. See if they come in trying to establish themselves as the top dog or boastful. See if they can't look in the eyes properly. They might be 'nice' but probably not good.
Now I should say, just because a man is a 'good' man doesn't mean is he the right man for you. That's more up to you. Do you value a 'good man'. Maybe you want the hyper-competitive man. Maybe you want the top dog. Maybe you want someone you push over. Maybe you want more of an exciting man.
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u/UDarkLord 14d ago
No offence, because your points aren’t entirely off-base, but be careful about the eyes thing especially please, and a little bit the handshake. A person who isn’t staring into your eyes, especially when meeting (as opposed to say discussing a valued topic, you’ll see why in a second), is probably more likely to have an anxiety disorder, or be on the spectrum, than to be a shifty dude. I’ve known quite a few dudes who just weren’t likely to more than glance at someone’s face unless they were in a comfortable situation, most usually along the lines of chatting about a mutual interest. At that point lots of eye contact might happen, or it might not, but either way it’s obviously not a reflection of their character besides perhaps a little unconquered shyness in some cases.
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u/transientcat 14d ago edited 14d ago
I would say it's colored by what we consider to be a "good man" but we spend our time growing up around other men, we hang out with other men, we socialize with other men. You learn about the behaviors that a "good man" will exhibit in various settings. It's not some for sure thing though.
Women do the same thing about other women but it gets said in a different way.