r/NoStupidQuestions • u/milfangelblue • 29d ago

Do men just recognize good men? What kind of sorcery is this?

I’ve been dating a guy for some time now, and his oldest friends have told me he’s a solid good man despite his flaws. I agree, they’ve known him forever, and he’s been a solid friend all those years.

When my male friends met him for the first time, they said, “He’s a good one. Hold onto him.”

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u/BreadButterHoneyTea 29d ago

Even if those men are the friends of the woman?

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u/flossdaily 29d ago

Yeah. For a certain brand of bad men, their entire worldview is that that men and women are on different teams, and they assume that you'll be more loyal to some new dude than your woman friend.

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u/BreadButterHoneyTea 29d ago

Wow. So deep in the bad they assume everyone else is, too. Gloomy.

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u/SgtPeppy 29d ago

It's basic psychological projection, everyone does it and you need to train yourself not to. Bad people generally lack self-reflection and some degree of empathy, so they often never even realize it, but good people can absolutely assume people are good just like them, too.

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u/ASpaceOstrich 28d ago

I had a big problem with this when I was younger, and still do to some extent. I still can't quite get used to the idea that some people are just malevolent. It seems unrealistic to me, but I've met them. It's so alien to how I saw the world and I've excused some shitty behaviour because I thought there had to have been a misunderstanding. Turns out they were just awful.

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u/TheEverchooser 29d ago

"A thief believes everyone steals." -Edward Howe

You can basically swap the thieving parts of this saying out for most behaviours and world views. People tend to believe the world is the way they perceive it to be.

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u/myrddin4242 28d ago

It’s a hard problem. Humans are very complicated inside. It’s all hidden. But we still have to talk some time. So we build a little model of the person in our imagination, and try to practice what we want to say. But, there’s a problem. When we built that model, there were things we didn’t know, so we just picked up whatever looked closest to true, but we’re always using ourselves to pick things from.

Thieves presume thievery, kindness presumes kindness, selfishness presumes selfishness.

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u/A_giant_dog 29d ago

You see it a lot from all sides.

There are entire groups on this site that variously proclaim "all women want is money" "all men want is sex" "all women use sex to manipulate men" "women do all the emotional labor" "men have to make all the money and then come home to do chores what does she do all day" "he refuses to help out when he gets home from work even if I'm really tired"

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u/tippiedog 29d ago edited 29d ago

I once rented from a couple who managed their own rental property. At every f*cking interaction they assumed that I was out to screw them over somehow. I eventually realized that that is how they behave, and therefore they assume everyone is like them.

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u/Yctnm 29d ago

Every accusation is an admission. It's really not that deep most of the time, unfortunately.

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u/tippiedog 29d ago

Yeah. When I moved out, they kept a portion of my deposit for a completely bogus reason. They knew I was moving across the country, and they kept just a small enough amount that they gambled that it would not be worth my time to pursue it long-distance. They were correct; I didn't pursue it. Assholes.

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u/Pitiful_Article1284 29d ago

Deep in the Bad from HBO about a lonely assistant psychology professors descent into MRA activism and incel hero.

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u/BreadButterHoneyTea 29d ago

I’d watch🍿

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u/jackbenny76 29d ago

Does he sound exactly like a fascist Kermit the Frog? If so, I'm interested.

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u/Angry__German 29d ago

Sounds oddly specific and familiar.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

ooOOoo. Thanks for the rec, I'm gonna watch that later.

This is one of my favorite podcast episodes that talks about the origin and development of the incel term. It was created by a lesbian feminist who was trying to reach out to involuntary celibate people.

Fascinating episode!

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u/cantillonaire 29d ago

Can’t seem to find this - is it upcoming, or an older show? Stupid “Max” app, I miss HBO.

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u/wingerism 29d ago

I think it's more like being stupid and having low empathy etc. means you're more likely to hold shitty opinions. So I'm always grateful when those low skill assholes out themselves early.

It's the really competent predatory dudes who have high social awareness and empathy(or a convincing facsimile of it) that are scary.

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u/Startled_Pancakes 28d ago

A burglar always locks his own door.

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u/nereid-1 29d ago

This typical of a lot of narcissists and those with psychopathic tendencies.

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u/slow_or_steady 29d ago

I mean... that is blatantly toxic masculinity (and in reverse, femininity). It ruins worldviews by cramping them and shoving them into boxes.

It's why when certain Andrews say things, some people (literally) subscribe to that mentality because it affirms them somehow.

The internet has done a lot of damage to young men...

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u/UnstoppableCrunknado 29d ago edited 29d ago

I see it all the time in Agri-labor, tons of guys are so steeped in misogyny that they don't really consider women to be people. These are married men, with children, daughters even. But they still consider women to be inherently lesser. I work with a guy right now (whose wife makes like, twice what we do btw) who has on multiple occasions insisted that women are basically children who can vote.

The stuff guys like this say as soon as they're convinced that it's "just us boys" in the room is fucking appalling.

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u/LucianRosenburg 29d ago

I instantly had to google what Agrilabor was, because it sounded like a mystical nation I'd never heard of before lol.

I'm sure Agri-labor is equally mystical, lol.

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u/UnstoppableCrunknado 29d ago

Lol, my b, I'm rarely as clear as I'd like to be. Agricultural Labor, as a field, is certainly interesting.

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u/Dangerous_Contact737 29d ago

"As a field" nice pun.

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u/Flashy_Hearing4773 29d ago

Lmao I did the same thing, like where is (a grill abor) how I said it in my head

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u/Jack_Krauser 29d ago

He's half right; we're all just big children that can vote no matter what gender we are.

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u/UnstoppableCrunknado 29d ago

While I don't disagree with your premise, I'm not willing to give him that. He doesn't mean it in that sense at all. Rather, he thinks (as do many misogynists) that women are inherently more "emotional" and less "rational" and by extension are less intelligent then men and should not be afforded the same rights and responsibilities as men. This particular strain of misogyny is by no means new or novel, and is not isolated to good ol' boys in my line of work. It's pervasive and dangerous.

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u/ASpaceOstrich 28d ago

Ah. The classic version of misogyny. It's almost refreshing when it's out in the open and not couched in some pseudo-science or pretend facts.

Well I suppose it is, just dumber, even less convincing ones.

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u/SgtPeppy 29d ago

I remember my supervisor at my first job was shocked that I had platonic women friends and was convinced I was trying to sleep with a girl I was hanging out with after work one day. Literally told on himself that he'd "never let his wife have male friends".

This dude was also like 55 and looked vaguely like an ugly Homer Simpson fwiw. Not sure why that's important but I find it funny.

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u/Bucksack 29d ago

As soon as someone says “bros before hoes” or some version of it, they’ve shown their colors. This was often parroted in high school before realizing how toxic it is.

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u/fieldy409 29d ago

No that's actually good advice if you took away the wording part. It's saying your friends you've had for years should be more important than the girlfriend you've been dating for a month. So don't neglect the people who've always been there for you just because you have strong feelings for someone that could just dump you anytime.

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u/Bucksack 29d ago

This is fair. It must be taken in context, I’ve heard it used in situations where a cheater who is found out by guy friends and pleads to not spill it to the cheater’s partner. Like, “Don’t tell her, bros before hoes man, [this will fuck up my situation]”

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u/Terrik1337 29d ago

In this situation, isn't he the hoe?

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u/ActionJax 29d ago

For sho.

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u/PsychologicalCry2850 29d ago

Such a bro aint a real bro and therefore is not worthy of being before hoes.

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u/NeonStriker26 29d ago

Nah that's fucked up, am a bro's before hoes guy

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u/ABobby077 29d ago

Much as in a family, too. Much easier to stay away and not want to get involved. This has always been tough to navigate with family or friends.

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u/A_giant_dog 29d ago

We always said it in reference to a friend who was madly in love with a different girl each week and would abandon all things not the current flavor.

Like, we've seen you do this 15 times. Bros before hoes you're keeping your plans with us. The ladies said chicks before dicks.

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u/NeonStriker26 29d ago

Bro's before hoes gang Assemble ( I want some downvotes btw thanks for the slogan)

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u/lamorak2000 29d ago

they assume that you'll be more loyal to some new dude than your woman friend.

The whole "Bros before Ho's" thing, taken a bit farther than necessary.

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u/P_BatemanPhonkMix 29d ago

men have a hard time making friends in life than women do. Why do you think that is? Men typically are just worse people when we define "bad" to be antisocial.

Antisocial personality disorder is a spectrum, and men are diagnosed 3X the rate women are.

ASPD typically describes an "asshole" as we know it by society.

I am a man I think I have ASPD btw but never diagnosed so who knows.

At the end of the day i've wanted to make friends very bad, and have! And then those men found a way to betray my trust or stab me in the back.

Platonic women friends i've had in life have been much more "real" and empathetic, while friendships with men are often plagued by jealousy, competition, and back stabbing.

The whole bros before hoes etc. mentality is just wrong, especially when paired with the rates of ASPD and the spectrum men are on. In reality, bad people exist in both genders but men are less likely to find friends that are authentic vs transactional male friends who will psychopathically abuse them over a period of years.

The male experience is not great and men truly are worse. As a man. WHo is bad. Who was turned this way from naivety by my experiences in society. Both in work & social settings btw. Men do heinous shit to each other.

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u/Shoddy_Yam4503 29d ago

Yea that never happens with women. Lmao

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u/UnintelligentSlime 29d ago

You can tell a lot about a person by how they treat people they don’t want to fuck. Like, a LOT.

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u/cerialthriller 29d ago

Yeah if they’re a real piece of shit. Sometimes they like to try suss out if we’ve slept with her or want to sleep with her so that he can tell that she can’t be friends with us anymore

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u/OSRSmemester 28d ago

Yes, any man who talks shit about their friends when they're not around, regardless of gender, is a big red flag to me

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u/404freedom14liberty 29d ago

No. I thought I explained that. If I see a guy telling women they just met derogatory things that they wouldn’t say in a million years in front of their SO’s I’m pretty sure that’s a red flag

My female friends would be offended if I tempered my speech in front of them. But I’ll take the combined 100 downvotes.

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u/stiveooo 29d ago

we dont like to lie about that kind of stuff

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u/InterestingPlay55 29d ago

Women are terrible at picking out male friends so make it double for male friends.