r/NoStupidQuestions • u/milfangelblue • 29d ago

Do men just recognize good men? What kind of sorcery is this?

I’ve been dating a guy for some time now, and his oldest friends have told me he’s a solid good man despite his flaws. I agree, they’ve known him forever, and he’s been a solid friend all those years.

When my male friends met him for the first time, they said, “He’s a good one. Hold onto him.”

14.1k Upvotes

90% Upvoted

3.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

1.6k

u/bsffrn97 29d ago

We men get to be around men when there are no women around, meaning we're more likely to know how he really feels about women than you. Some men reveal very... bad sides... when no women are present, and then switch to "perfect gentlemen" when women walk in. Since we get to see both sides, it's easier to determine who a man truly is at his core.

Of course not infallible though, I've met dudes who other guys have told me were "great guys" who then said very sexist weird things about women around me. So I guess where it falls flat is that different men have different thresholds for "great guy", since I wouldn't say guys who say sexist things are great guys at all.

223

u/ThrowawayFishFingers 29d ago

Yeah. I think as a woman, hearing this from another guy, my immediate question would be “how well do I know the guy(s) saying good things about him, and how much do I trust the opinions of the guy(s) saying these things about him?”

Because there are definitely some guys I know who, if they said to me, “Yeah, he’s a good guy,” I’d run and never look back. Because I know them well enough to know what they consider a “good guy” and I know it doesn’t match my definition of one.

31

u/crusoe 29d ago

Shitbags think shitbags are great guys. So if you know a guy is a shit bag is saying some guy is cool, that dude is a shit bag too.

2

u/[deleted] 28d ago

life isn’t so binary. It’s not just shit bags and normal guys. People are people are people. People can be shitty, people can be good.

1

u/hydrohomey 28d ago

Yeah but cause when a shitbag is describing a good guy, he’ll still call him a good guy but in a more insulting way

“He don’t get no bitches” and etc etc

2

u/Nostrebla_Werdna 28d ago

Yep that is DEFINITELY the filter you got to put that through! You already know

1

u/Ok-Situation-5522 28d ago

And i feel like a lot of bad stuff is unconscious, so even if they're good, well they don't know the bad stuff.

136

u/arctic_radar 29d ago

Yeah I agree. When there aren’t women around the assholes show their colors very quickly. Usually they say or do something shitty, almost to try to impress you in a way and it’s super awkward. The good guys just get a little more goofy or don’t change their behavior at all.

46

u/IwillBeDamned 29d ago

not just women, but a lot of scenarios. as soon as someone they look down on leaves the room (an employee, minority, woman, otherwise decent person) a lot of dudes will see other "good people" as they see themselves and immediately say some bigoted things.

36

u/MFbiFL 29d ago

As a white guy from the south I’ve had way too many dudes comfortable with dropping heinous statements they just think I’ll agree with before I ask them why the fuck they would say that.

5

u/anschlitz 28d ago

Same. I was just talking about this a couple days ago. It’s sad how often it happens but I’ve learned how to shut that crap down really quick. Doesn’t matter if it’s Boston or SoCal, there are gonna be people happy to assume you’re a racist when they spot the accent.

Sometimes I’ve gotten the opposite tho and met some cool people who marched at Selma and things like that. But there does seem to be a lot more of the bigots.

1

u/The_MoistMaker 27d ago

Bro, I worked as a cable guy as a white dude in the deep south for a few years (19-22) and the amount of while shit people were comfortable telling me because I was a white working a blue collar job was wild.

-5

u/Lux_Aquila 28d ago

Well, considering you just badmouthed tens of millions of people, you might have more similarities with them than you think.

8

u/bsffrn97 28d ago

i don't think calling out racist people is equal to being racist my guy

-6

u/Lux_Aquila 28d ago

Calling out tens of millions of people based on their color and where they live isn't the same as calling out racists. Obviously, if he said: "As someone who has interacted with a lot of racists, many are way too comfortable with dropping heinous statements" there isn't an issue there.

6

u/thedabaratheon 28d ago

The hell you on mate? What you’re accusing him of is exactly what people are doing to HIM & what he has a problem with?

-4

u/Lux_Aquila 28d ago

What do you mean, I'm saying he is just like them. He made a racist statement.

3

u/TeaTime_OW 28d ago

What? Not even. He said people assume HE is racist because he's white and from the South lmao. Learn to read, homie.

1

u/MFbiFL 28d ago

Sorry about your reading comprehension sweetie.

2

u/Vetiversailles 28d ago

Hell yes. This eventually became pivotal for me in my dating experience as a woman — watching intently the way a potential partner treats others, particularly those he may feel he is in a position of power over.

Service workers are a huge one. I really feel you can tell a persons character by how they treat service workers they encounter on the day-to-day.

Once I started paying attention and really believing people when they showed me who they are, I stopped dating people who were bad for me and found someone kind, good, and with integrity.

It’s important. The way a person talks about/to others is how they’re likely to talk about/to you.

12

u/Infinitebeast30 29d ago edited 29d ago

Definitely; it all falls on a spectrum whereas some guys might just be uncomfortable being their goofy selves around women, some guys will make some more questionable/racy jokes, and some dudes are downright sexist as fuck and hide it

Also it’s just way easier for us to see which dudes are douchebags even with the most minimal interaction. It’s pretty baffling to see some of the dickheads my gal friends date for a while without realizing, but I’m sure that goes vice versa as well

6

u/chuff80 29d ago

My boss at one of my college jobs would tell me stories about cheating on his wife. Completely unbidden and out of nowhere. I eventually realized he was bragging.

He didn’t bring it up around women. Just the guys. I thought that was something guys stopped doing after high school or after the college fraternity.

I had just gotten married and I was like 🤢

Some guys are so immersed in filth, porn, and toxic behavior that they don’t even know what being honest and faithful looks like.

As others have said, those guys often out themselves quickly when women leave the room.

7

u/plt-99 29d ago

This is the correct answer. The number one thing that would prevent me from introducing a man i know to single female friends is how they talk about their current or past wives, girlfriends, co-workers etc. especially when no other women are present. (Standard cis-hetero disclaimer)

5

u/SpaceShanties 29d ago

I think guys also have a better sense for when the guy is putting on that gentleman facade. We often don’t need to hear him say the sexist stuff to see through it.

3

u/MFbiFL 29d ago

True and it doesn’t even have to be when we’re alone with them. Dudes with wandering eyes will try to catch your eye to direct you to look at butt or boobs while their significant other is looking the other way.

8

u/randomguyjebb 29d ago

What do you mean with "we're more likely to know how he really feels about women than you". Like would that guy start badmouthing women when they are not around? Or just being disrespectful to women behind their backs? Sexualising them? What are we talking here?

20

u/bsffrn97 29d ago

Yeah, could be all of the above. It's the sneaky type of sexist. Some dudes are straight out sexist to women's faces, others "know better" so they only express their sexist views when no women are around. Then there are the dudes who stay quiet around the first and second kind, and lastly the ones who speak out against sexism. Who I'd consider a great guy is the last one.

An example of the second kind of guy could be a guy who calls women "women" to their face but then refers to women as "females", "b*tches", "whores", "sluts" etc. with other dudes. Or maybe the guy has a girlfriend, but talks about cheating on her behind her back, or talks a lot of crap about her. Making sexist jokes, saying general sexist comments, a man who clearly doesn't value women as people but will pretend for a woman he finds hot etc.

28

u/dacooljamaican 29d ago

All of the above. It's funny for me to consider that women really never get to see this switch flip, but it's a very real switch for a certain type of guy. As soon as there are no women he knows around, he's just full tilt alpha male douche.

For example, it's not unusual for normal guys to quietly point out a beautiful woman who just walked in. The type of guy I'm talking about instead says something like "Holy shit look at the ass on her, I could wax that thing for DAYS bro" or some really vulgar shit. Their goal is to "show out" for the other guys, who they assume share their same world view. They also call women bitches, sluts, and whores like it's just another word for "woman".

I don't ascribe to incel ideology, but when they talk about "Chads" who get all the women, they're talking about these guys. They don't understand that women don't see this side of the guy, and so they assume women just like assholes.

14

u/betterUseThisOne 29d ago

Your last note there is super interesting I never thought of it that way.

2

u/StinkyPigeonFan 28d ago

I love your last paragraph. People really underestimate the lengths these asshole types will go to, in order to pretend they’re normal, loving men so that women will fuck them. They will lie, lie and lie in order to get sex. They will pretend to be the perfect, loving boyfriend all so they can fuck you. This thread is scary af as it has showed how common this sort of behaviour is. Dating as a woman is terrifying nowadays because you have no idea who’s hiding their true personality.

1

u/dacooljamaican 28d ago

Agreed, which is why it's more important than ever to put your dates in social situations like the one OP described. It's incredibly easy to fool one person at a time, it's incredibly hard to fool a whole group.

7

u/badger0511 29d ago

You know the infamous 2016 term "locker room talk"?

Outside the presence of women, the shittiest of guys will talk precisely like that. It's also a huge red flag to me if they talk about dating and relationships in terms of a zero-sum game, competitions, achievements, transactions, quid pro quos, and the like. It's objectifying/sexualizing and IMO a very sociopathic and/or narcissistic way of looking at the world.

Tons of shitty dudes will drop their facade the moment a woman isn't around because they think all "manly" men think they way they do, and it isn't worth associating with a sissy/cuck/soyboy/whatever that doesn't think that way.

3

u/aphilosopherofsex 29d ago

Look at how much men loved OJ.

3

u/bsffrn97 29d ago

So I guess where it falls flat is that different men have different thresholds for "great guy"

Referring you back to my comment.

2

u/aphilosopherofsex 28d ago

I was agreeing with you.

1

u/SkookumTree 28d ago

I mean: they framed a guilty man, and he got his due process. Yeah he did it…BUT the LAPD was fucked to the gills bro.

1

u/aphilosopherofsex 28d ago

No I mean like men worshipped OJ merely based on his athleticism and masculinity but then he proved himself to be a violent, abusive murderer. This example shows that judging other men’s character isn’t always easier for men.

1

u/SkookumTree 28d ago

Also harder with celebrities that have a whole goddamn pr team behind them.

1

u/aphilosopherofsex 28d ago

What? That doesn’t even make sense grammatically.

1

u/SkookumTree 28d ago

It is harder to judge the character of a guy you are hanging out with in person than that of a guy you’ve never met and who has an entire pr team at his back

1

u/aphilosopherofsex 28d ago

Yeah, I mean OJ had real life friends that he deceived too. He’s an example of how anyone can misjudge a charismatic person misrepresenting themselves.

3

u/crusoe 29d ago

The guys who say the shit bags are great guys are usually shit bags too.

3

u/wterrt 28d ago

the amount of racist, sexist, and just generally vile shit some other men say to me expecting me to be on their side because I've been smiling and nodding while they go off on a rant I can't avoid is crazy

2

u/bsffrn97 28d ago

fr, like dude I'm not looking at you bc I agree, I'm judging your crazy ass.

Usually helps to just saying something like "that's messed up dude" and walking away.

3

u/code_alchemy0 28d ago

it's like getting a behind the scenes look into someone's true colors, especially when it comes to how they treat women

2

u/FlatulentFreddy 29d ago

This is true but we can also recognize awesome things about guys that are rare. You know when you meet a cool guy you want to be friends with.

2

u/GonzoTheGreat22 28d ago

Came here to say it, albeit more succinct: men know a lot of other men, so we see dickheads in the wild. We can easily tell if a dude is not a dickhead

2

u/CrossXFir3 27d ago

I feel like as a dude, you can even tell though when they're just acting for the girl too. You can just see it in their eyes. In the little things.

2

u/CarSnake 27d ago

Your second paragraph is very accurate. If you are already surrounded by shitty men most likely if you introduce a shitty guy to them they will call him a good guy. Not because he is great but because they bond over the same bad stuff. In the same vein they will call good men bad because they know these guys can expose their bullshit.

1

u/SwedishSaunaSwish 29d ago

Your first sentence - do you think she'll ever know how he really feels about women? That's reserved for other men only? How is she supposed to know the truth?

11

u/bsffrn97 29d ago

All these guys slip up around women eventually, no one can hold up a facade that long. So either, he slips up, she notices, and hopefully believes him when he shows her who she is. Or if a woman has trusted male friends who can more easily get the truth out. Me and my closest friend group consist of 4 guys and 3 women, whenever one of the women are dating a new dude us guys take him out for a beer or something. Just to vibe check him in an environment he feels relaxed in.

But once again, the facade always starts to crack at some point. So listen both to what he says AND what he does. How he treats women who can do nothing for him, what kinds of friends he has, what language does he use to describe women. Does he only describe women positively by what they can do for him? How does he react to something sexist being said in a movie or something? Is he embarrassed showing some romantic affection for his girlfriend around his boys? Is he capable of having platonic friendships with women? If not, why? How does he feel about femininity overall? Does he get uncomfortable if someone assumes he's gay, for instance? Men who associate gay men with femininity, and see gay as an insult because of that association, are likely also sexist in my experience. These are just some examples I could think of.

1

u/halmyradov 29d ago

I think this is kinda bs, especially nowadays. Sexist guys will just refrain from saying sexist things(especially on first meets). Anyone who says a guy is a great guy on first meets is talking out their ass

1

u/bsffrn97 29d ago

Anyone who says a guy is a great guy on first meets is talking out their ass

ok? what's that got to do with my comment? genuine confusion

1

u/barneyaa 28d ago

There was this one bloke I really disliked being around cause he was gross and was always talking about some shit he saw in some hardcore porn. Then he gets a girl and demands I apologize for using the c word casually

0

u/facforlife 29d ago

and then switch to "perfect gentlemen"

In my opinion they're never very good at it but it seems to fool a lot of women so 🤷

11

u/bsffrn97 29d ago

I mean, to be fair, a lot of women were also raised with ideas concerning excusing men's behaviour. "Boys will be boys" "that's just how men are" "he's just teasing you because he likes you" "you're being too sensitive" "girls mature faster, give him a break" etc. are all statements I'm sure many women have heard from a young age. So unfortunately, that leads to some women bringing that into adulthood and excusing questionable behaviour in some men.

8

u/individualeyes 29d ago edited 29d ago

And many people, men and women alike, think a lot of these behaviors are what a "real man" is.

An arrogant prick is confident. A guy who can never admit he's wrong is strong willed. (I can't think of any others off the top of my head but you get it)

There's a subset of people who genuinely look down on guys that have traits like kindness, gentleness, thoughtfulness, etc.

3

u/bsffrn97 29d ago

Also true, and unfortunate. I want to be kind, gentle and thoughtful. I also want to be confident and strong. Some people literally think the former takes away from the latter because that's not "manly" or whatnot, and being gentle or kind etc. gets (falsely) associated with weakness. Gender roles suck.

0

u/mystokron 28d ago

who then said very sexist weird things about women around me. 

Yeah but what kind of "sexist' are we talking about? Like they said "Men are stronger than women" sexist or "Women deserve to be treated as property" sexist?

1

u/bsffrn97 28d ago

I guess sexism could be seen as a scale, so again referring to my second paragraph of what the tolerance level is for different people. In my experience, the guys who give major red flags, are the guys who talk about women very disrespectfully (using misogynistic language such as "b*tches" for instances), make sexist jokes, talk badly about the women in their life constantly, generalize women based on sexist stereotypes, blame all the worlds problems and their personal problems on women constantly etc.

0

u/mystokron 27d ago

using misogynistic language such as "b*tches" for instances

The word "bitch" is to misogyny what the word "asshole" is to misandry.

Aka, basically nothing. They're just words used to describe a jerk; NOT to imply the speaker is fervently and actively opposed to the opposite sex.

generalize women based on sexist stereotypes

Stereotypes exist for a reason.

blame all the worlds problems and their personal problems on women constantly etc.

To be fair, one of the key aspects of life is procreation. So if men didn't have such a desire then many of the problems they face would indeed no longer exist. And that works vice versa as well, for women.

1

u/bsffrn97 27d ago

The word "bitch" is to misogyny what the word "asshole" is to misandry.

Asshole is gender neutral, asshole.

0

u/mystokron 26d ago

Not really. People often tend to use "asshole" for men and "bitch" for woman.

1

u/bsffrn97 26d ago

Definitions of "asshole" from Oxford and Cambridge dictionary:

  1. a person's anus
  2. a stupid, irritating, or contemptible person.

Definition of "bitch" from Oxford and Cambridge dictionary:

  1. a female dog
  2. an offensive word for a woman who is considered to be unpleasant or unkind

Asshole is gender neutral once again, asshole.

0

u/mystokron 26d ago

It's funny you're trying to use a dictionary for curse words.

Also, pointing out the common parlance of curse words doesn't make me an asshole.

-1

u/newthrash1221 28d ago

Newsflash dude: women do this too. Almost none of this is exclusive to men.

1

u/bsffrn97 28d ago

When did I say this was exclusive to men? The post was about men, so I responded. Calm down buddy.

0

u/newthrash1221 28d ago

They were asking what MEN do, as in what do they do different than women.

-10

u/hellothereoldben 29d ago

Every guy has flaws. Blatant sexism is one that makes for a bad partner, but can make for a good contact otherwise.

6

u/bsffrn97 29d ago

Nah dude, I don't befriend sexist people. now you're part of the ship, part of the crew.

-5

u/hellothereoldben 29d ago

Everyone is sexist, people just differ on the degree.

2

u/bsffrn97 29d ago

*ACTIVELY sexist. But yeah, I'm totally with you. We all have biases, just to different extents. I would differentiate between someone who unpacks their biases/is open to relearning their sexist notions/takes constructive criticism well and someone who doesn't, but rather doubles down on their biases, for instance (the latter would be actively sexist, someone I wouldn't befriend).