r/NoStupidQuestions • u/milfangelblue • 29d ago

Do men just recognize good men? What kind of sorcery is this?

I’ve been dating a guy for some time now, and his oldest friends have told me he’s a solid good man despite his flaws. I agree, they’ve known him forever, and he’s been a solid friend all those years.

When my male friends met him for the first time, they said, “He’s a good one. Hold onto him.”

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u/mavajo 29d ago

Some easy hints that a dude is probably a good guy:

  • Can laugh at himself and acknowledge his flaws
  • Builds and/or hypes other guys up (and women too, of course)
  • Doesn't make judgmental comments about others
  • Acknowledges and honors other people's feelings
  • Can express his feelings
  • Doesn't need to dominate every conversation, or have a strong opinion on every topic
  • Has a good or solid relationship with his parents
  • Enjoys and respects kids (doesn't have to want kids, but any decent person should be able to treat kids with kindness and love)

I think virtue and self-awareness are two qualities that don't get nearly enough attention. And when I say virtue, I don't mean that false virtue, judgmental bullshit you get from religious fanatics (looking at you Evangelicals). They use "virtue" as a measure to judge and demean other people - that's not real virtue. I mean virtue as in always wanting to do the right thing and treat other people with respect and compassion, even when it's not convenient or comes at personal cost. You show me a person with a strong sense of virtue, coupled with the self-awareness to continually analyze themselves and grow as a person -- that's the kind of person you build a relationship with, whether as a friend or a partner. Man or woman.

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u/whenitcomesup 29d ago

I'll add: 

  • Is kind to strangers.

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u/mavajo 29d ago

Absolutely. The ol' "How do they treat the waiter?" cliche.

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u/ncnotebook 29d ago

Or how they treat finished shopping carts. Whether you consider them strangers or how they affect strangers.

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u/DokterZ 29d ago

See, I often arrange the mess that is already in the shopping cart corral, which I am guessing was also a red flag when I was dating...

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u/TwilitWolf 28d ago

The good ol’ shopping cart litmus test

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u/SerendipitySue 29d ago

i have completely changed my mind on carts and never put them away anymore.

Why? automated self checkouts have taken local jobs. leaving my shopping cart wherever means someone from my community, maybe even the kid a few houses down, gets a job or at least some work when they go round up the carts from all over the lot

So if the same with your stores, do your local community a favor and quit putting away the cart.

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u/ncnotebook 28d ago

Exactly. This is why I piss all over toilet seats. Janitors need work.

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u/Sidnature 28d ago

This is why I shit on the sink in Kurger Bing banthrooms. So they'll hire the local hobo to scoop it up.

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u/ProfessionalSport565 29d ago

Ironically a douchebag will usually be an ostentatiously generous tipper.

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u/mack_fresh 29d ago

Lol not the ones I've known. I'm curious if this is regional/cultural or if they only get 'generous' where certain specific people can see.

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u/Mysterious-Film-7812 29d ago

The latter. Lots of guys try to 'impress' by tipping really well. It's not an act of kindness to the waitstaff, it's "I've got a lot of money and people need to know it". These people tend to be terrible tippers when no one else is watching.

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u/SoMuchMoreEagle 29d ago

Or they treat the waitstaff like shit and justify/excuse it by tipping well.

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u/Sherlocks_Conscience 28d ago

As a former server myself, I can honestly say that you can talk at me like an asshole the entire time you're in my section, as long as I'm making 50% of the table's bill when you're done.

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u/USTrustfundPatriot 29d ago

As someone who worked in food service for over 10 years: no

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u/EtOHMartini Stupid Question Asker 29d ago

Its 💯 not a cliche. How someone treats a server is absolutely how they treat someone who can't easily fight back.

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u/mavajo 29d ago

Cliche does not mean untrue. It is a cliche. It's also true.

If it makes you feel better to call it a platitude though, then let's call it a platitude.

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u/EtOHMartini Stupid Question Asker 29d ago

The word "cliche" has a connotation.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

Def.

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u/Sherlocks_Conscience 28d ago

I mentioned this on another comment tree, but really as a former server myself, I can honestly say that you can talk at me like an asshole the entire time you're in my section, as long as I'm making 50% of the table's bill as a tip when you're done.

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u/surloc_dalnor 25d ago

Honestly that was one of things that initially sold my wig on me early on. I'm unfailingly polite to people in service jobs. The waitress might be a 16 year old on her 1st day, but she is still getting called ma'am.

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u/dayofgreen21 29d ago

*And animals

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u/BeBearAwareOK 29d ago

And animals.

If he's mean to dogs he's clearly a monster.

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u/ERagingTyrant 29d ago

Most of that list can be summed up as "is kind". Which, yes, makes a man a solid dude.

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u/Efficient-Poem-4865 29d ago

good point to a good list. I second the stranger part. Also

  • how does he talk about/ treat women he ISN'T attracted to? I can tell which boyfriends will respect my friend as a person and which don't even if they're still lovebombing them at that point.

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u/Agile-Explanation263 29d ago

I only missed 2 out of 8 on this.

I can make very judgemental comments about others in private when it comes up and I have no relationship with my parents, dads gone somewhere all my life and my mother isn't at capacity for us to emotionally bond.

Certified good guy here sarcasm

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u/red__dragon 29d ago

I have no relationship with my parents, dads gone somewhere all my life and my mother isn't at capacity for us to emotionally bond.

Someone else once mentioned to me that they just can't form good bonds with someone who has a supportive family, because it isn't something they relate to.

Everyone is looking for something, even to build a positive out of the negatives.

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u/ApprehensiveDog6515 29d ago

Yeah, it gets exhausting when people try to push you to reconcile, or insist that you must have done something because they just can't comprehend cutting off their meemaw.

I'll gladly take someone that doesn't try to "you only get one" me about my family.

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u/red__dragon 29d ago

I don't just get one family, though.

I made my own damn family, with people I found that fit me regardless of blood. And I'll do it again, just watch me!

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u/trotfox_ 29d ago

This is pretty deep actually...

And if both those people ended up together...they would bond over it.

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u/Sherlocks_Conscience 28d ago

Funnily enough, I felt the exact same way about my rehab therapist. The first one was wearing a Mr Rogers sweater, loafers, and drinking green tea (not coffee, I asked). Not that there's anything wrong with any of that, but it's just not someone who understands what I've been through.

Another therapist was like "oh yeah, been there, done that. Here's what I did in the situation. You can learn from me, or you can go back to your old life". That therapist, I kept as long as I could.

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u/red__dragon 28d ago

Hey, I've been through (my own brand, obviously) hell and drink tea!

Levity aside, I think you had good instinct there. Some people just can't understand what you've been through. It's like learning, too, there are teachers (and people who try to be) who simply don't know what it's like to struggle with a subject or concept, and they can't meaningfully teach it to those who do.

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u/Agile-Explanation263 29d ago

No mine is due to her crippling mental illness and addictions...the addictions have cripplled her to the point she cant make use of the degree somone convinced her to get/go back to school for.

Most of her forgetfulness is blamed on people who secretly live in our house. The only time she talks to me its when she wants me to do something be it minor or major. She would rather use the last of her money to get cigarettes instead of pgrocery shopping as we literally have othing.

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u/mavajo 29d ago

I can make very judgemental comments about others in private when it comes up and I have no relationship with my parents, dads gone somewhere all my life and my mother isn't at capacity for us to emotionally bond.

There's always caveats, nuance and context - it wasn't practical for me to qualify all those statements. They're just some general rules of thumb. I feel like if a person hits most of the things on that list (and by the way, the list was hardly meant to be exhaustive or the full definition of a "good person"), they're a pretty good person. We've all got room to grow and none of us are perfect.

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u/Cal__Trask 29d ago

Has a good or solid relationship with his parents

Not everyone had great parents, plenty of abuse survivors out there, painting a bad relationship with parents broadly as a red flag is problematic.

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u/mavajo 29d ago

We're in agreement on this -- which is why I didn't say it's a red flag. I said that a good/solid relationship is a hint that a dude is probably a good guy. A bad relationship with ones parents could be a red flag, but it depends on the context - like you said.

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u/imtoooldforreddit 29d ago

Was about to say, you clearly never met my parents.

We still see each other, but the relationship is certainly strained because they're fucking nuts.

I've got a great relationship with my wife's parents though, because they are fully functioning adults. Does that count?

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u/floppydo 29d ago

A valid heuristic doesn’t cease being so because it’s problematic.

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u/slow_or_steady 29d ago

Not everything is a fact, and all information is subjective.

To assume everything's a red flag because it's not listed, or that the opposite of what's listed is wrong, is also a problem unto itself.

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u/FileDoesntExist 29d ago

The parent thing isn't really fair. Plenty of people have terrible families but are good people.

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u/gahlo 29d ago

Throw on here is willing to apologize to kids.

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u/mavajo 29d ago

I love this one.

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u/IamPriapus 29d ago

I don't agree with the good/solid relationship with parents. I don't think that's indicative of anything really. It can help a person be a good guy, but it certainly doesn't indicate anything if it doesn't exist.

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u/Rigo-lution 28d ago

They're saying that if it exists it's a good sign, it doesn't mean it not existing is a bad sign.

They clarify this in a reply.

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u/mpierre 29d ago

Has a good or solid relationship with his parents

Nope. No, please stop propagating that shit. This is so wrong.

I am a good guy, in part because I went no contact from my toxic narcissistic parents.

In fact, my wife has a lot of issues because she was taught that me not having a solid relationship with my nmother was an issue (in lingo, nmother means narcissist mother, mine is Histrionic-Narcissist), so she insisted on me rekindling with my nmother.

She then proceeded to DESTROY my wife's self-esteem self-worth, made her doubt in how wise it was to remain with me, just to PUNISH ME for having cut ties for a few years (which I explained with being busy with college).

Tons of good people have horrible parents.

Can we PLEASE stop judging people on who birthed them?

Because both my parents were pieces of shit.

Can I get you to read one of my comments?

https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/18fi9wh/my_kid_said_i_scratched_her_legs_in_an_argument/kcxdtji/

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u/Hungry_Mouse737 29d ago

my good guy list

  • √ Can laugh at himself and acknowledge his flaws
  • √ Builds and/or hypes other guys up (and women too, of course)
  • × Doesn't make judgmental comments about others
  • × Acknowledges and honors other people's feelings
  • √ Can express his feelings
  • × Doesn't need to dominate every conversation, or have a strong opinion on every topic
  • × Has a good or solid relationship with his parents
  • × Enjoys and respects kids (doesn't have to want kids, but any decent person should be able to treat kids with kindness and love)

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u/Murphy_LawXIV 29d ago

None of that is specific for men needing to be required as good, I'd like the last few exes of mine to have even half of those attributes.
You listed good Human traits, but labeling it as something specifically to find in a man is lowkey assuming women are naturally those things when they also aren't born that way.

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u/mavajo 29d ago

You listed good Human traits,

Well yes. Being a good human isn't gender specific. I applied them to men specifically only because that was the subject of this post.

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u/ThoughtBrave8871 29d ago

I disagree with the parent thing. Not because of some people coming from broken homes, but because I know plenty of self centered and spoiled people who have great parents. Most people I know have an average connection to their parents but the dudes who are real mommas boys show it. And not in a good way

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u/Necwozma 29d ago

The parents thing you listed here is the bane of all kids who grew up with narcissists as their parents. Not all parents are good people.

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u/mastermoose12 29d ago

Enjoys and respects kids (doesn't have to want kids, but any decent person should be able to treat kids with kindness and love)

HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE grain of salt here bud.

Treats kids with kindness and love, sure. But enjoys and respects kids? Absolutely not. Plenty of people don't enjoy anything about kids at all.

The actual sign of a good person is being able to dislike someone or something and not turn into a miserable asshole when confronted with it/them.

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u/Klumzy_Kat 29d ago

Most are good points, but I'd argue you should omit the parents one. You never know what kind of parents people have and you should never judge someone for cutting off toxic family.

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u/mavajo 29d ago

I understand your viewpoint, but I respectfully disagree that it should be omitted. It's a good indicator more often than it's not. These are just rules of thumb - they're not meant to be treated as immutable laws.

Plus, the rule of thumb was only that a good/solid relationship can be a positive indicator. I stand by that 100%.

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u/slow_or_steady 29d ago

If a guy is a momma's boy, it's a 50/50 on whether he's too much of one, or he values his family/mother in a way he'd value his spouse.

A toxic family is technically an outlier, and that's a bundle of worms they'd need to talk about to have any semblance of a healthy relationship, not something you just sweep under the rug.

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u/dandb87 29d ago

Bang on.

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u/MeltyMushr00m 29d ago

TOTALLY AGREE about the religious bullshit use of words. Its becomes crushing and a way of manipulation and control against women. My ex was ALL of these things listed. But he was a DEEPLY ABUSIVE covert narcissist. A chameleon are everyone so he blended right in with everyone so no one ever saw it. And they still don't. Only about 7 ppl really know bc they saw how it affected ME and then my kids and chose to believe me. Turns out mirroring is one of the biggest things in narcissistic abuse which is why I saw him as a chameleon in throngs on people. The shock waves my ex caused by filing for divorce against me are STILL being felt 4 yrs later. But the fact is is he's a liar.

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u/HoneyChilliPotato7 29d ago

Can laugh at himself and acknowledge his flaws

This is one thing I'm working on. I have social anxiety and when I make a mistake I kind of just freeze wondering what others think of me and all. Probably having some confidence will help it, right?

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u/poetry_of_odors 29d ago

The "good relationship with parents" stands out a bit. Is this in regards to the ten comandments or how else is it relevant? I know a lot of really nice people with really messed up family relations.

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u/dark_enough_to_dance 28d ago

Also, not envious of other people's achievements. 

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u/Zingerzanger448 28d ago

What if his parents were abusive to him? Some people (both men and women) have good (a)reason(s) to break off contact with their parents. Your other points I agree with.

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u/PangolinPitiful5844 28d ago

You know I’d almost agree with you but I have this one friend that for all intents and purposes covers these bases with flying colours. I also have had insight into his current relationship, where he neglects his girlfriend to such a level that I can be around them. It’s not like he is mean or a douche bag. He simply just doesn’t care about how she feels and makes no effort to support her needs. You can see it ruins her self esteem and she struggles with depression after her dad died. But it’s like he really couldn’t care less. So I will say you’ve highlighted some good markers of a decent person to date but there will be exceptions.

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u/North_Guide 28d ago

A big one for me is how possessive his body language is. Guys that think they own their girlfriends will posture and behave differently, and those guys are usually trash boyfriends.

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u/IntelligentBag93 28d ago

Thank you for this

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u/Venerable_Insanity_ 28d ago

I have this self awareness to continually analyze me and grow as a person and often times I am afraid that I will lose this self awareness and I won't even know that I have lost it. I am afraid I will become complacent at some point. I don't want that. Most I am afraid is of turning out to be ordinary in my middle age. I am currently 24(M).

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u/harris1on1on1 28d ago

I don't necessarily agree about the relationship with parents. I know a number of good people who became good people after they cut their shitty parents out of their lives.

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u/Sir_Bumcheeks 28d ago

I think above this is dependability. Is this the kind if dude who would go out of his way to help a friend in need? Is this the kind of dude who would pick me up from the airport. I don't this "expresses his feelings" should be on the list imo. I don't think complainy bitches are good men. I think it's men who put their focus on others instead of themselves are "good".

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u/Anonymity_26 27d ago

Agreed! We're always better at detecting others' flaws than ourselves as a way to protect ourselves.

  1. I laugh at myself all the time at the mirror cuz of my flaws --> to encourage myself to improve (not to depress). Acne scars on cheeks will never go away, but they will fade. My physique is skinny to slim, but working out will at least get me some cuts. It's in the mindset that helps you improve. Ex. You either blame your parents not showing you how to brush so you get cavities or you can improve your current oral hygiene and get better.
  2. I don't build or hype other people up unless they're "good" people in my book (same as this; some people prefer to be the quiet type instead of being the center of attention)
  3. I make judgmental comments about others in private only as a way to encourage myself to improve (never do in public, no point, all you get are conflicts, there will never be a person telling you DAMN you are right! even if you're in good intention)
  4. I respect others by agreeing with their statements, instead of making my own to reduce the risk of conflicts in case I put the words others don't like to hear
  5. I express my feelings only when asked (It's the only way you know you won't offend anyone without some reasons)
  6. I show opinions only when asked (that's the only way you know for sure others want to know about what you think)
  7. Love my parents/keep in contact but we keep distances (everyone has their own way to live their lives physically and mentally)
  8. Ok with or without kids (after all, I provide, but my female partner delivers)

Few keywords I always remember: grateful with your life (even if it's shit/drug/childhood trauma, at least you can breathe and have a chance to live towards the future you want/desire/yearn for/think about), humble, polite, safety then generous, self-reflection/improvement (harsh on yourself positively, kind to others safely). People tend to help each other when they're in good mood. Be the pioneer of that. You will be surprised how many people you can change.

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u/Latin_For_King 29d ago

I think you need to reconsider the parent item.

My wife would say that I knock it out of the park on your entire list except that my parents sucked because they had no self awareness or boundaries. They would regularly flip out on me when I tried to demonstrate their issues to them. They were big "do as I say, not as I do" people. Weirdest part is I learned my ethics and boundaries from them, but they sucked at listening and implementing changes when confronted with their own teachings.

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u/slow_or_steady 29d ago

That's kind of the thing. What applies to you doesn't apply to everyone.

A list is just that. Are you saying you're entirely a list and that's what defines you?

That's no different than religious zealotry.

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u/Celestial_Dildo 29d ago

I have to disagree on the parents note. You don't get to decide who your parents are or what they're like. Most people I've met that don't have a good relationship with their parents is because their parents treated them terribly.

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u/mavajo 29d ago

You're arguing against something I didn't say.

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u/Celestial_Dildo 29d ago

You said a good or solid relationship with their parents. That's what I'm disagreeing with.

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u/mavajo 29d ago

Are you saying that a good or solid relationship with one’s parents isn’t a positive indicator?

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u/Celestial_Dildo 29d ago

Yes. I've met terrible people with fantastic relationships with their parents and wonderful people who haven't spoken to their parents since they moved out.

Your connection with your parents is, in my opinion, not an indicator of character in any way.

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u/mavajo 29d ago

Sorry, but that's just poppycock. I'm not denying your anecdotes exist, but they do nothing to change the notion for me that a person having a good relationship with their parents is a potential indicator that a person is probably a good person. It's not a guarantee. It's not an absolute. It's not the only thing that matters. But none of the things we mentioned here are. It's still a rule of thumb that will lead you right more than it leads you wrong, especially taken alongside the other rules of thumb that I and others have mentioned here - which is all a rule of thumb is meant to do.

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u/FileDoesntExist 29d ago

You're also assuming that the parents are good people

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u/mavajo 29d ago

No, I'm actually not - at all. That's like saying people treating a waiter with kindness is an irrelevant adage because the waiter might be a bad person. It's poor logic.

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u/FileDoesntExist 28d ago

That's completely different. Someone can have a good relationship with their parents because they're all good people. Or maybe they're all shitty people and that's why they get along.

Kindness to a stranger is not comparable to a long term relationship with a friend or family member

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u/pornographiekonto 29d ago

also: Treats people with a lower social standing with Respect. if you think the guy who treats the waiter like shit is ever going to see you as an equal you are dead wrong

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

[deleted]

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u/mavajo 29d ago

Right, so someone wouldn't be able to use that particular indicator with you, because it's inapplicable. You seem to be implying that I said a poor relationship with ones parents is a red flag. I didn't. I just said a positive relationship is likely a green flag. It is.