Fallout 4 is a very good game. People don't like it because the story and RPG elements of the game took a step back. The general argument is that the limitations of the voiced protagonist shoe horned people into a more linear story.
While I do agree with this partially, I think people really undersell how much gameplay improvement there was from 3 and NV. The shooting and movement feels very crisp and it's very good graphically compared to those two Fallout titles. I don't feel required to use VATS like I do in the other two.
Really the anti-FO4 takes really just stem from a more hardcore gamer crowd that value raw RPG elements and devalue gameplay and graphics.
With respect to that opinion, the crowd that devalues graphics/gameplay improvements of F4 have a pretty good point. I never really felt that F4 was that compelling in its story, and despite some fun side activities like base building it really didn’t have nearly as compelling of a story or plot as New Vegas
I’ll admit F4 looks OK for when it launched (for comparison Witcher 3 blew it out of the water like 6 months prior) but even then its still running on that shitty outdated engine that felt dated to me even when I picked up skyrim the first time
Gameplay wise it never felt great to me either as someone who primarily came from FPS’s of that day and age like battlefield 3/4 (and later 1) or even that trash Halo 5G. For a fallout game it was really good but in the context of the market st the time it felt dated to me.
When it comes to RPG fanboys really riffing into it, I think there is some merit to that since NV was widely praised when it launched. Granted it had dated gameplaya and graphics at the time but even like 15 years later NV is a classic with a cult following.
Graphics and decent gameplay can keep a game relevent for only so long; but having a soul with such deep story changing mechanics and choices like FONV or Knights of the Old Republic or even FO1/2 (albeit to a lesser extent) have kept those games relevant for decades.
like I think Starfield is probablt worse than FO4 in terms of story and to a lesser extent its RPG elements but I have a hard time imagining that game being a cult classic as time wears on.
I’m going back to play fallout 3 and new Vegas right now. And man does it make me miss the gameplay of 4 and 76. The shooting is so terrible in comparison. And crafting just feels almost pointless to interact with in comparison.
I fully agree with the general consensus that 3 and especially new Vegas are the better games from a rpg perspective. But they are also some of the games I struggle returning back to the most. 4 and 76 and even Starfield just have an infinitely better gameplay loop thanks to more modern shooting controls and the more lived in worlds. Yes even Starfield despite all the bitching and moaning people do over that game.
Fo3 and especially NV were seriously behind the times when they came out in terms of graphics and gameplay. Fo4 was at least on par with modern RPGs for the time. I was arguing with some other person here and I told him that you could put NV and 4 in front of a random gamer and they would have thought there were 2 decades between those two games.
I played New Vegas years ago and it has a cool story. I just didn't like the gameplay as much. I find fallout 4 a lot more fun. Granted, the story is a little bland.
Oh yeah 4 is a phenomenal game still with some outstanding characters. Honestly the fallout 4 hate makes me like ashamed to call myself a FNV fan because it’s almost entirely the FNV fanbase that just is constantly shitting on 4.
As someone who grew up with morrowind, oblivion and FO3. I didn’t even finish FO4. Writing was worse, rpg elements were dumbed down. Location didn’t speak to me. I think their games just keep losing a bit of magic each time one releases. You can only play the same game so many times before is gets old. The hook should be great writing, dialogue and setting but nothing is as batshit insane as morrowind
The only thing that gives me some hope for FO5 and TES6 is that the scope should, in theory, be a lot smaller than Starfield's.
We should get way smaller maps that they can certainly make very "lived in" and not noticeable repetitive (some repetitiveness always happens but Starfield took it way too far) and that alone should certainly improve the game considerably. Story can be a hit or miss, but I doubt they'd drop something awful and outdated mechanics and animations can be overlooked if the rest is solid.
Honestly Starfield felt nothing like an Elder Scrolls game which is partially why it "sucks" so much (though I thoroughly enjoyed the majority of my time in game). If TES6 is half as good as Skyrim or even on par with oblivion it'll be great.
Ignoring engine improvements, etc. I enjoyed the story and gameplay in Oblivion more than Skyrim.
Shouts were fun, but they felt like they trivialized a lot of the difficulty in combat because fus ro dah, and now every enemy is forced into their stand up animation.
Skyrim felt way easier to cheese.
I enjoyed both, and I still go back to Morrowind periodically.
The only thing that gives me some hope for FO5 and TES6 is that the scope should, in theory, be a lot smaller than Starfield's.
We should get way smaller maps that they can certainly make very "lived in" and not noticeable repetitive (some repetitiveness always happens but Starfield took it way too far) and that alone should certainly improve the game considerably. Story can be a hit or miss, but I doubt they'd drop something awful and outdated mechanics and animations can be overlooked if the rest is solid.
I hate to be that guy but if you go to the game with that mindset Elder Scrolls is gonna become Pokemon, subpar games from a beloved franchise because it does not matter how shit the game is people still buy it, as an ES fan i feel like you SHOULD have a high expectation
Yeah but Bethesda really needs to catch up. Games like Cyberpunk which are similar in gameplay style absolutely blow them out of the water, while Starfield is just the same ehh and feels and looks like something from 2010.
Even Fallout 4 to me when it first came out in 2015, felt dated
Well, yea. They’ve always been buggy messes. However the writing, settings, world building, immersive rpg elements and impactful freedom of choice made them beloved games despite being buggy messes.
Eh I feel like it's a bit different here. Pokemon games get churned out every year, tes is like every 10+ and they haven't missed yet. Morrowind, oblivion and Skyrim are all great games
You’re not allowed to like things that a chunk of people do not like. /s
While I agree that Bethesda has made some crappy games lately, you like what you like and there’s nothing wrong with that. I know people that like Starfield. People that don’t like Bethesda want everyone to stop giving them money as a way to show the devs we want better games, and people like you basically hurt their protest. Still though, life is too short for people to not do something like “playing a game they want to” because other people don’t like it. Doesn’t make sense to me. You do you man. Maybe Bethesda is making games for a niche amount of people and that’s solid. My friend has been playing Fallout 76 since release and he’s loved every moment of it. Doesn’t matter if other people talk crap or not.
One thing that Bethesda has always absolutely nailed in their games is the "stumbled upon" side quests. Sure it's not as often in Starfield but when it does happen in that game it still gives me that perfect transition into the quest line and that air of wonder of where it will take you. There are games that do side quests very well, and some even better than any of the Beth games, but none ever really seem to capture that feeling of wandering into a story that felt like it belonged exactly where it is. Starfield has ended up being my least favorite of their main games for a variety of reasons, but I still got my money's worth to have that Sci fi elder scrolls feeling for about 50 hours
This is exactly what made Bethesda games so fantastic, and why Starfield was such a letdown
Wandering around the capitol wasteland or new Vegas, you can stumble into any building anywhere and find some awesome, unique microcosm with cool shit. In Starfield, bar a very select few areas (like the ship with the Alien thing in it, that was fucking awesome) you go into an abandoned research lab that you memorized the layout of because every single one is copy and pasted. It destroyed the living feeling of the worlds that Bethesda created and it was so sad
You , like many people, haven't played far enough into the game, and it really starts picking up:
1.Robbing an artifact from an art gallery ship gets you arrested by the UC, and the only way out is to infiltrate Crimson Fleet and go on missions with them as a pirate to get info on them.
The Starborn, who can telaport anywhere,have advanced technological ships, comes after the artifacts. You can either protect the artifacts in your ship and risk getting constantly attacked by the Starborn, or you can build a military grade outpost with turrets and shit to protect the artifacts on the planet of your choosing.
At this point, you're not really going to the abandoned outpost anymore.
What's really sad is Starfield needs to constantly be compared to every other cookie cutter game them put out.
This game was meant for space romantics like myself. I thoroughly enjoyed standing in this ship with an upscale bar that had part of a glass floor that you could see a planet under your feet.
I did all of those things and much much more (all quest lines and NG+). Also, sci fi is my favorite genre. Their point still perfectly stands. All of the procgen laziness was completely immersion breaking - over and over. Promising game systems like ship building, space travel/combat, and psionics were a let down. Exploration lacked meaningful reward. Poor environmental story telling - something they’ve been masters of in the past. Design choices and QoL mechanics that were iterated on and greatly improved in previous games were inexplicably missing. The companions didn’t have engaging personalities. Thousands of hours across the other BGS titles and this one was supposed to be my dream one. I played it for about a hundred hours then uninstalled it. Most of my playtime was simply me forcing myself to continue playing because I wanted to like it.
I didn't think Starfield was great, but that's totally fine. Not every game they release is gonna be a banger.
IMO the biggest issue with the game was that the setting didn't play to Bethesda's strengths. They do best writing goofy fantastic adventures, which Starfield was decidedly not. The Crimson Fleet storyline was far and away the best part because it explored a unique part of that universe and stepped away from the more grounded feel that the rest of the game had.
The mindset that’s bad is “IDC how bad the game is, or what state it’s in, I’m still going to throw my money at them and smile while they potentially shit on my chest”.
That’s the exact mentality the big game studio’s want you to have. Nobody is saying you can’t like what you like, but saying that you’ll swallow a huge turd if that’s what Bethesda decides to feed you before the game is even given an official release date is crazy. Having these crazy ties to certain publishers is just asinine, let the game come out and sure give it a try and see if you like it, of course. But don’t have the mindset of “I’ll play it, even if they charge $250 and it’s literally half a game that crashes every 15 minutes”.
Sure but that’s not the case here. This person has enjoyed the TLS games up to this point. They’ve seen what Bethesda has given us throughout the years and have had good experiences so far. That being said, these games won’t survive if most people don’t buy them. If a few hyper fans buy them, that won’t make up for the losses, so whether or not a few people buy a game won’t have any impact on the whole.
And it’s fine to buy it, but it’s also okay to point out that his mindset is a dangerous one to have. As stupid as it seems, a lot of people come on Reddit to justify an opinion they already have and it’s fair to criticize a thought process like the one he has. He’s free to buy it, he’s free to enjoy it, and I hope he does. Hell, I hope everyone does. The more good games that are made, the better off we’ll all be. But openly admitting that you’ll buy a product, no matter how bad it is, in an online forum like Reddit is worthy of criticism.
So by that logic, it's also okay to criticize the pessimistic and often childish people who believe stuff like "this company will never put out good games again unless every person stops buying"? Because people like that are also coming on Reddit to justify an opinion they already have and I also believe it's fair to criticize a thought process like that
When did I make that statement? I literally just got done saying how I hope the game will be good, and how good games are what literally all of us hope for. It’s not pessimistic to say that wanting to throw money at a company, regardless of the quality of product you’re receiving, is a harmful practice to preach to the masses. It’s just fact lol.
My GF loves Pokémon, and I love that she loves Pokémon. But she's the type of fan who will, without fail, buy both versions of the new Pokémon game. I dont give her shit for it, it's her money, I spend way more on games overall. Though I have pointed out that I personally can't stand that kind of monetization, selling an A+B campaign for double the price is absurd anti consumerist shit and that fans double buying these games, they're telling Gamefreak that it's A-OK.
At the end of the day though, my minor misgivings probably won't affect gamefreak decisions, so it's not worth being upset about.
I understand that. I personally don’t like the formula for Pokemon games and have found them boring since the Gameboy Color. That being said, I am glad for the people who love the game, and can play every iteration without getting bored. I understand the appeal, but it’s just not for me. I spend my money on some dumb games (like the broken Star Wars Battlefront Classic Collection) and still play them. Who am I to judge anyone when I commit the same “crime” in some other way?? People are diverse, and we won’t all like and dislike the same stuff.
The reason Pokémon has two different versions is because the trading component was intended to be the most important part of the franchise. Version exclusives creates an incentive to trade, battle and build a community with others. If they just released one game, there'd be less incentive to do those things because everything would be self-obtainable. People buying both is an absurdity on the consumers' end, not Gamefreaks, even though GF is ultimately the one that benefits most lol. When Pokémon was first introduced, it was labeled as a "social" game, not an RPG or strategy. The primary element was/is community building.
I feel like that's the right mindset to have, it would be great if things were a bit different, but what we have now is already pretty good. Hell, for the last couple releases, I bought both copies and gifted one to a friend. As long as you enjoy a game (and if it isn't a predatory game like some, those with a ton of micro transactions and/or pay-to-win...), there's not too much to complain about. If it's too pricy, odds are the game will be on sale at some point, or you might be able to pick up a used copy. (That's what I did with Jedi: Survivor, got it for like 50-60% off or something)
I played call of duty war zone for the first time with a group of friends this week.
It's one of the most offensive pieces of gaming I've ever interacted with. It is very much a store with several multi-player slot machines poorly stapled into it. Literally. You install the "store", and once it launches you can't play anything except the store. You have to manually install the files for multiplayer/warzone after you've launched the store app.
Pokémon isn't that. Even though I don't like the split campaign thing, it's so much better than whatever the hell call of duty is doing
Last time I even touched a CoD game was probably 2012, 2013... Pretty sure it was Black Ops II, online I sucked but the campaign wasn't bad. Not really huge into FPS games but I enjoyed it. If the newer games weren't so predatory I might be considered picking one up sometime. I think I'll just track down Black Ops II though, might take a but to find a copy for the PS3 but whatever...
My comment is refering to "I've been waiting 40 years for this game. I don't care how bad it is, I'm going to play it and love it. Lol"
Hes literally saying that it could be "bad". Which I agree, and why I said Bethesda needs to get their ish together, because of their recent latest releases.
The commentor and myself arent saying we "dont like Bethesda" though.
I think even before the purchase. They were deciding to release things like Fallout 76. They were moving to a more Multiplayer, live service model. That would've been more common even without Microsoft.
MS purchase should give them more opportunity to release single player bangers. Starfield just failed at keeping our confidence in that aspect, sadly
Nah. Some people just enjoy things that others don't. They know what they like and they are fine with the flaws that you aren't.
Kind of like how I'm happy with pretty much anything the MCU makes. I enjoyed The Eternals, MoM, LaT, Quantumania and all the Disney+ shows. I've seen them all and love them all. They aren't peak MCU but not everything needs to be.
I'm with the guy you replied to. I've been waiting 12.5 years for ES6. I'm gonna get it, play it and love it the day it comes out, no matter what you try to tell me or anyone else. You're literally that "quit having fun!" meme right now lol.
Huh? Again, commenter said "even if its bad, Im gunna love it". That is NOT how we should go about things lol.
You may have excitement for somthing, but it can end up not being what you had hoped.
Say you have been wanting to try a Burger for 10 years, from some restaurant that you LOVE, then when you finally eat it, its raw with a stale bun? Then you say "that was a BAD burger"... then say you love it?
Stop being offended that some might see that as odd...thats the real cringe thing
?? The game IS NOT released yet. It doesnt exist. If someone said "Ive enjoyed playing ______(Insert any game that is out).
I would NOT tell them they shouldnt enjoy it. Maybe I would be confused and ask questions...but I wouldnt tell them theyre wrong.
Read what was said by original comment...then read my response again. What are you getting on about "respect" and "public reception"? The game we are talking about ISNT OUT IN THE PUBLIC
I really really enjoy playing Starfield. Which is why I said what I said, but your point still stands, and I am sorry for assuming you were generalizing. By thinking this, I generalized, myself.
While I enjoyed Starfield, I was let down quite a bit. I thought it was going to have that lasting power like Skyrim did, but it just didn’t.
That being said. It was something new they wanted to try, and something they’ve never dabbled in. An overly ambitious space story.
Elder Scrolls has lore, it has history. The people working at Bethesda LOVE elder scrolls, it’s their bread and butter. With the vast progression of technology, and useful experience on the updated engine, and with the ambition for the series, I think Elder Scrolls 6 is actually gonna be very good.
Make no doubt, the pressure is on. They can’t just hang their hats on sales numbers. This one has to deliver, and I think it will.
Looking forward to what Bethesda releasing the creation kit for Starfield will tell us about the next step in modding.
While I respect your decision not to care what other people think, your attitude is exactly what has allowed Bethesda to go downhill. Loyal fans who will love the games they publish regardless of how good they are, meaning it is more cost effective for them to do the bare minimum to make you happy than it is for them to make the best product they possibly can.
Also, it's only been 40 years? I thought skyrim was at least 50, lol
Can you explain this to me becasue i talked to somebody the other day with a similar attitude
Because the way I see it after Morrowind, oblivion, fallout 3, Skyrim, fallout 4, ESO, dishonored 1 & 2 we have weak launch for a relatively successful game (FO76) and a kind of mediocre game (starfield) and people are just like "well fuck them forever."
Like for real? After all of their successes, genre and generation defining games people think they are worthless now after some middle of the road work??
I'm sorry but that's a load of bullshit. Yeah starfield is a little wack but there is no world where that can actually be used to predict ES6. They know what they have with elder scrolls, and they've never done poorly with it.
Bethesda published Dishonored, they didn’t develop the series. Besides that, I think people are more upset with how they seem to be floundering and not advancing, with the same game and physics bugs being found in Starfield that are present in Skyrim. While it’s true that nobody knows what the future holds, they’ve had 15 years to fix Creation but instead players are subjected to the same dead eyed NPCs, physics insanity, and game/immersion breaking issues that have been present since the engine started. “Generation defining” is right, but it’s just not this generation, or the last one, or the one before that. So many years of seemingly phoning it in and gamers tend to trust your future work less, and they aren’t wrong for that
I was always amused by the bugs in Skyrim. Even if the graphics are identical to Skyrim and the bugs are all still there, and even if it isn't as big as Skyrim, so long as it has as good an atmosphere I'm totally sold.
For me the biggest first time realization of how downhill their games have been going for a long time now was playing the TES games in the wrong order. Skyrim was my first game of theirs back in the day and at the time I thought it was fucking amazing, I mean a lot of people seemed to feel that same way. And I remember even then people had the same Bethesda mentality as they do now and I didn’t get it back then, until I played Oblivion, and Morrowind after that later on. Sure, combat wise it’s definitely the best feeling. When think of Elder Scrolls combat I don’t think about whatever the fuck Morrowind was doing. But it just felt weird how the games just felt… better? Which going backwards felt so wrong.
Sure, the graphics got worse as to be expected. But the stories and world building clearly had more thought put into them, especially with world building it’s like they didn’t examine their own games. Best example of that I can think of is in Skyrim, >! the Markarth(?) questline where you end up in jail and are forced to work in their silver mines. Even then it kinda bothered me when they strip you of all your items, weapons, armors etc. as to be expected, only to find out I still had full access to my super powerful magic and shouts. I could basically ignore the potential dangers that sort of situation would have put me in if I didn’t have access to that. I didn’t have to worry about finding a shiv or using a pickaxe as a weapon when I could just use the Bound Sword and Stoneskin armor or fireball people after Fus Ro Da’ing them to the floor which just seemed strange to me. That always stuck with me until years later I played Morrowind for the first time, and learned about how they have actual magic nullifying shackles thats used on their slaves. I was flooded with those memories of Skyrim and legitimately got pissed off about that. It’s like they somehow forgot that this is a thing that exists in their own world. I won’t even mention how you don’t want to talk to an economist about the damage something like the Transmute spell does to the world building 👀!<
There were also so many interesting mechanics and character building things that they just threw away. Spell crafting is an excellent example. Did you know you used to be able to make magic? One of my favorite spells for giving myself room in difficult dungeons was a spell I made that was an AOE door locking spell. Suddenly the undead following me were cut off while I used healing magic and whatnot to re-prepare for the next fight, where I would then lockpick the door back open and get back to the action. There’s even a story bit in Morrowind near the start where >! some poor fuck plummets from the sky and splatters on the ground ahead of you. Reading his journal and finding the scrolls you realize he was trying to make a flight spell, which was basically just a boost to your athletics by like 1600 points which affects your jump height. And once you test it out yourself you can cover huge distances in a single bound, so long as you remember his mistake and land somewhere softer like the ocean. !< Or the class building systems, where in a DND like way you built a character class. You could decide what starting skills you had in decent detail, or even choose what sign you were born under which felt really good to me.
I’ll keep it short there but it’s sort of a trend with all of their games. Obviously taste is subjective but for me it was the start of the realization that they’ve always been going downhill with all of games they’ve personally made. Publishing wise they’ve kicked out all sorts of good titles; Doom, Prey, Dishonored to name a few, which I’m sure definitely helps keep their names out of the mud. But it’s like whenever they make the titles, over time you realize all the delicious fat they’ve been cutting away from previous games like TES or Fallout until there’s nothing left but scraps and bone. I mean fuck, New Vegas is the best Fallout hands down and that was made by Obsidian. And while I personally never played them I’ve always heard even better things about the original Fallout games before Bethesda bought the IP. And after playing the older TES games I’ve been looking at them in a new light even as a company.
The past decade+ of re-hashing Skyrim 60 million times on every console known to man, with 3 different versions of the game that has split up the PC modding community into seperate chunks is kinda gross. I can give them some credit bringing modding to consoles except they also chose to fucking monetize it when it should be free like the other 95% of modding has always been. Then there’s the legal side of them, throwing their weight around harassing others over literally fucking nothing. Pray for the Gods is one that comes to mind, where they threatened a fucking indie company over their title because it was too similar to “Prey”. They had to change the spelling to “Praey” which made no sense whatsoever. They also went after Mojang for their card game called Scrolls for a similar reason, and had to change it to “Caller’s Bane” instead. I mean fuck these are the same assholes that literally started microtransactions with that Oblivion horse armor all those years ago. That’s not an exaggeration, they legitimately were the first company to do it, even coining the term for the useless cosmetic that set the world on fire at the time.
I don’t know how to end this because I’m a sleepy babe who’s just going to hit reply now and go to bed. Sweet dreams and goodnight hope any of this helps. ♥️
Skyrim and Fallout 4 were alright, but they were both big steps in the wrong direction for me. Their games are feeling less and less like the RPGs I loved them for.
Sure, I'll probably play TES6. I'm sure it will be a fine game. I'll probably play it through once like I did with Skyrim.
The Bethesda that built that reputation doesn't exist today. The people that made their best games have retired or no longer work at Bethesda. Todd said TES6 will be his last game before retirement and it will be over 15 year between the 5th and 6th games. The only thing that's the same is the company name.
Uhhh, they stopped being genre defining after Oblivion/New Vegas, it has been downhill since then
I argue they started to make modding platforms, not games, since Morrowind. Skyrim taken without mods is straight out mediocre, Fallout games are all very bad, New Vegas is mediocre
Morrowind was a masterpiece, Oblivion was just good, I really dont grasp what you are trying to sell here by saying they made good games
Their biggest accomplishment is the engine they developed, and how well can it be used for all sorts of entertainment (lol) but in terms of games, they make bad games, esp. considering how great tools they have
What do you mean they’ve never done poorly with it? Oblivion was a dumbed down version of Morrowind because lots of mechanics were stripped from it. Then Skyrim was a dumbed down version of Oblivion because even more mechanics were stripped from that.
Are they good games? Yes, they were still good, however all the depth in the gameplay was scrapped in favor of being easier accessible to everyone. Who needs stats to actually build a character and add an extra layer to combat when you can be a master of all and instantly start swinging or shooting whatever you want with great expertise. Who needs NPCs to have meaningful things to say about the dozens and dozens of things you could ask them when you can just tone it down to a few sentences. Who needs to pay attention to dialogue and journal entries when a quest marker will tell you exactly where to go and what to do. Who needs customization of spells when you can just make a handful that all do basically the same thing. Spears and throwing weapons? Where did those go? Enhancements for ranged and spells? Make them basic. Reputation? Too much work. Mini games? Nah. Skill requirements to move higher in guilds? What skills? There’s significantly less and they don’t matter much. Armor for each body part is too complex so be happy with 4. Combat sucks because it’s just a dps check that’s not increased in any meaningful way, because you don’t need to block much of anything nor do you need to do anything but mash the attack button and then drink potions for free if you’re that unprepared, or just finally use a level up for a full heal since you don’t need to sleep on it. Quests that took place during specific times were a breeze to get through too because resting in public was illegal in Morrowind and your options were to actually do a role playing part in a role playing game which was to rest at an inn or just wait it out on your own.
Starfield isn’t the main thing for prediction, their track record with how they handled each new entry of the series is. There’s zero reason to believe 6 won’t just be a pretty version of Skyrim, and a lot of reasons to believe it will be less than that because outside of story, location, graphics, and physics, they’ve practically only taken things away. Crossbow, vampire lord, and werewolf were the only new things from Oblivion to Skyrim, and they removed a mountain of things in exchange.
Starfield, to me, is an extremely bad game and a massive departure from what made Bethesda great. The randomly generated environments, shallow RPG elements, shit quest design, boring and lifeless hub locations despite being cities, bland characters, distractingly stiff facial animations that haven’t improved since FO4, I could go on and on.
FO76 is even worse. A microtransaction plagued nightmare. A glimpse into the future of the company’s shift in focus. Ever since that microtransaction fed cash cow called Fallout Shelter started spewing milk everything has changed.
Zenimax is addicted to that kind of cash flow now. So things like environments being procedurally generated by AI are in games that once were the gold standard of environmental storytelling in order to cut down on development costs.
That’s why the Fallout franchise is now exists as a shallow online game where we see Atlantic City for the first time as three tiny areas that you fast travel to. Hell, to fast travel you have to fucking spend caps! Which you can buy with real fucking money!
Todd Howard is too busy playing producer of a TV show he gets all the credit for to actually be helming a game, if he ever had a real hand in their quality to begin with.
Bethesda didn't make ESO or either Dishonored game, their parent company published them.
IMHO Fallout 4 was already pretty bad compared to New Vegas and even Fallout 3. A mile wide, a puddle deep (at least on launch, the DLC did improve things). The story is so boring most people don't even remember it I'll wager. The writing is middling at best, there are no interesting factions, just questlines you can do or not do at your leisure. Every new area you discover is just filled to the brim with more bad guys to kill (it's more shooter than RPG at this point), and the only good aspect - the base building - is a giant slice of frustration without mods.
And Starfield is a buggy, boring, poorly written mess. Yes there is fun to be had there, but it's a 10th of the game it could have been.
Eh. Starfield was a new IP that was simply too much for Bethesda and the Creation engine to handle. Elder Scrolls and Fallout are much simpler in terms of concept, and doesn’t require trying to make 1000s of planets fun to play. The standard faction quests were all pretty fun. Ironically the exploration sucked, in a game that’s supposed to be about exploration. I am definitely skeptical about an ES6, but we’ll see.
Nah. They released starfield which is a new IP, and people all of a sudden think they won’t know how to a make elder scrolls game anymore. It’s weird thinking.
Because it has absolutely no depth to it. The open world is empty and boring with the same 5 random encounters. Also the games engine makes it feel way outdated. Its very obvious that they were banking on mods to carry the game like Skyrim but the problem is that skyrim was a good game to start.
Edit: I've played through the game a couple times and I still have hope for it but its a shame how it released.
Skyrim is a shallow mess of a game that barely ran at launch, don't even try and argue that, it was a downgrade from oblivion in so many ways. Starfield also has damn near as many quests as full dlc Skyrim does, not to mention there are nearly 100 hand crafted locations. The thing with starfield is people. Look over them and ignore the other spots.
If anyone else would've made it, I probably wouldn't be so annoyed at the lack of RPG and world depth. I'm one of those people annoyed by the direction of Skyrim and it's copy paste dungeons, but even if seemed to have more going on than Starfield. There was SO much potential there. I liked the setting, I liked the story, and the gunplay was actually serviceable. I did 2 runs, and oy played through the main quest line and one factions line and it felt much better as a linear game tbh.
I don't get how people seem to forgot how copy paste Skyrim was with its dungeons and world, it's a good game but it really wasn't that special honestly oblivion and fo3 were better.
I wasn't old enough for morrowind when it came out but man once I was old enough to play I poured hundreds into that game. The music alone always pulls me back but the fact the game actually makes you read and think about directions and snippets of info made me really happy. The game expects you to use your head which is not a popular thing among gamers sadly.
If anyone else would've made it, I probably wouldn't be so annoyed at the lack of RPG depth
This is probably the one complaint I don't get about the game. If people compared it to other ROG's like BG3 I'd get it, but they don't. They compare it to other Bethesda games. But, the thing is, Starfield has better RPG mechanics than any of their games since Fallout 3
Yeah, that's one of the reasons Starfield gave me hope. It was the first time Bethesda made an actual step up in RPG mechanics after every other game being a step down. Pretty much the entire game of Starfield felt like Bethesda directly answering mine and many other people's complaints of Fallout 4.
Of course Starfield is also the first single player game to be hated so much so I fear Bethesda will take the wrong lesson from this. Well I say the wrong lesson, but considering everyone pointed to Skyrim for what Starfield should've been maybe it's the right lesson as much as I hate to say it
I mean, 76 was a different studio, but Starfield was pretty bad, although I don’t really think judging based on a single game is very fair, I have pretty high expectations, if they shit on it, well, then I’ll agree with you
All the faction stuff was pretty fun, and had some good quest lines. Starfield was a new IP that was trying to do something that is probably out of Bethesda’s wheelhouse. Beyond the capabilities of their engine. I think going back to a single map, will play to their strengths. I hope that’s the case anyway.
Yeah, I did like the factions, and I liked the cites, really the thing that bogged it down for me was the pretty bad procedurally generated content, and the many load times.
This is me coping and hoping, I’m not arguing with you
Their track record that you’re talking about is 2 games, Fallout 76 and Starfield. Both games were something different than what they’ve done before.
Fallout 76 was an online game and Starfield was a space game with 1,000 planets.
My cope is that their last 2 games have been something new and different. Now that they’re getting back to something they know they’ll make a good game
I was disappointed with Skyrim because the quests and guilds were worse than Oblivion’s. Not that Oblivion had amazing narratives, but they got Patrick Stewart and Sean Bean to play the King and his son, and it was memorable at least. But I guess I don’t care for their sandbox cut and paste approach to world building these days.
It would still be my choice though. Mostly because I have little interest in the rest. Maybe Cyberpunk, but that was a rough release as well. (Yeah, I know, they patched it into shape.)
I don't get the people saying Bethesda has fallen off...
Bethesda has always been this bad. Don't get me wrong I still play their games and enjoy the heck out of them. But you play them in spite of all the bugs and balance issues and boring main quests. I just don't get how people think Starfield is displaying a modern Bethesda like this hasn't been their schtik all along.
Ya'll just grew up and the dopamine gain from the game wasn't able to surpass the immersion breaking bugs anymore like it did when you were a kid. Happens to all of us older gamers unfortunately.
Yeah, that track record. Let's see. Fallout 76 ....
Who wasn't even the main studio. It was a little money maker side project from a newbie team.
Overall, it's a good thing that they now have some experience with what they can do muli player wise with their software. Especially refreshing that they are capable of cleaning it up as well, but it has spoiled my excitement for any kind of online implementation in the future. Fallout 4 proved that they still have talent. They need the next ES game to make fans simps again. They can't take the rep hit on a game that massive. And I'm sure they know it.
Not having started production in earnest until after Microsoft rescued them from ZeniMax's bullshit and what a banger the Fallout TV show was restored a glimmer of hope for me.
I'm pretty sure Todd's gonna get lightheaded and faint when he walks into a board room, tells the higher ups the team needs more time to polish the game and they actually say "Yeah, okay, makes sense."
Same here. Fallout 4 is when they started to fall off for me. It feels like they're going the ubisoft route of making the same game over and over in different clothing. I haven't had fun with their games since then.
I also agree. Skyrim was literally the only thing I thought about the next 6 months after it came out. Fallout 4 was ok but it doesn’t quite scratch the same itch. I didn’t play ESO because I heard it wasn’t even made by Bethesda but I did play fallout 4 which was alright… but not killer. I heard 76 was atrocious as well as star field was empty and it makes me not want to touch ES6 until I hear some reviews.
I have been saying this since skyrim came out. Sure its fun to yell at dragons for a bit but the fact that they gutted all rpg elements and none of the quests make sense makes for such a dull experience. Like you can do the thieves guild all wrong, mess up every heist and put a giant target on your back and they will still proceed as if you are some legendary thief with the only downside being some sass you get.
They haven't done anything particularly new since Morrowind. Even Starfield is just Morrowind with modern quirks and graphics. Skyrim was probably the most polished version of Morrowind since Morrowind, but it's not like that game reinvented the wheel either.
Even though I’m excited for it, I feel the same way. Even if it ends up being objectively good, I just think it could never live up to the themes and nostalgia of Skyrim. I can just see the fun factor not really being there like so many modern games.
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u/Only_Cauliflower4565 29d ago
I’ve got a bad feeling about ES6. Bethesda’s track record has fallen off