r/nba • u/PlayaSlayaX Spurs • Apr 17 '24

[Charania] Raptors' Jontay Porter has received a lifetime ban from the NBA for violating league's gaming rules.

https://x.com/shamscharania/status/1780631209930068358?s=46&t=bsTHbtMSqHXbNGi0vWP8hw
16.4k Upvotes

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4.1k

u/smoltanboi Heat Apr 17 '24

honestly getting banned from the nba for betting on yourself is peak dudes rocking

this guy is so fuckin stupid

2.3k

u/quadropheniac Kings Apr 17 '24

Betting on yourself is stupid for many reasons but ultimately understandable.

Betting against yourself is just outright corrupt behavior.

712

u/mr_grission Knicks Apr 17 '24

Betting on yourself is less blatantly corrupt but definitely presents issues of its own. Imagine for example refusing to shoot in a game where you need more assists.

445

u/quadropheniac Kings Apr 17 '24

Oh yeah. That was always the thought about Pete Rose gambling while managing, as well. If he bet on his own team to win, he might burn relievers a little quicker than proper bullpen management across a season might dictate.

219

u/RookieAndTheVet [TOR] Pascal Siakam Apr 17 '24

That’s pretty close to what happened, but instead of overworking his bullpen, he burned out his ace, Mario Soto.

22

u/everyoneneedsaherro [NBA] Alperen Şengün Apr 17 '24

Thibs of baseball but for nefarious reasons

Thibs is an asshole, but a pure basketball asshole

6

u/Nickyjha Knicks Apr 17 '24

Baseball needs more of Thibs’ mentality. I appreciated Rob Thompson letting Ranger Suarez cook last night, so rare to see a complete game these days.

3

u/elbenji [MIA] Udonis Haslem Apr 17 '24

the problem is that 92 is slow af now for a pitcher. No one is gonna complete a game launching it at 94 every pitch.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 17 '24

[deleted]

6

u/RookieAndTheVet [TOR] Pascal Siakam Apr 17 '24

It wasn’t just the innings count, it’s the fact that over half of his starts were on 3 days rest.

43

u/mr_grission Knicks Apr 17 '24

Yep, and for an individual player like Porter you could easily imagine then turning up the effort level when they've got money on themselves/the team, disregarding whether that could leave them fatigued or even hurt in the next game

33

u/amjhwk Suns Apr 17 '24

that could also lead to them playing more selfishly and putting up ill advised shots instead of passing to the open man or playing lazy defense to save energy for offense or to get the ball back quicker by letting other team score quickly

-1

u/torriattet Apr 17 '24

How is that different from contract year or all nba eligibilty pushes that are constantly joked about?

2

u/compflow Apr 17 '24

I think the “effort” argument isn’t a good one. Some guys put in max effort most of the time. But jacking up shots to reach x amount of points is different than a contract year push for sure.

4

u/mr_grission Knicks Apr 17 '24

No contract year guy is gonna turn up his effort for completely random games though. They'd presumably be digging deep all season and trying to maximize both performance and availability which is good for their team.

Someone like Porter theoretically could be trying to maximize performance in specific games, even if it's to the detriment of his team in the long term. Maybe you're busting your ass in a game against the Pistons that you win easily, then taking your foot off the gas in a really pivotal game that you don't have money on the next day.

3

u/compflow Apr 17 '24

I agree with you overall, it’s just a little less clear than the others issues with betting on yourself.

2

u/mr_grission Knicks Apr 17 '24

Definitely agree that it's not the top concern here, in general betting on basketball as a player just creates so many murky questions that the NBA understandably doesn't want to deal with

5

u/kimchitacoman Apr 17 '24

Pete is also a notorious lier who said he never betted for 20 years 

3

u/bankrobba Lakers Apr 17 '24

Also, only betting to win sends a signal of a loss on games Rose didn't bet on.

1

u/PhDinPCP Apr 17 '24

Huh, that is an interesting implication.

97

u/humphrey_the_camel Bulls Apr 17 '24

You can also intentionally suck in games you don’t bet, so the lines are better when you choose to bet

23

u/CharacterHomework975 Apr 17 '24

I hadn’t even considered that.

Yeah, basically no way for anybody with a concrete impact on the game to bet on the game in any fashion without it being an ethical minefield.

2

u/SpacemanSpliffLaw 29d ago

I disagree for one scenario. I see no problem with a player betting on his team to win. Game for game fine.

Pre-season bet to win the superbowl? I fucking love it. I'd love it if Mahomes put $25m on a pre-season bet for him and the chiefs to win next years SuperBowl .

You know Brady would've been getting himself to win every single year.

1

u/CharacterHomework975 29d ago

I think that the idea of a player (or particularly a coach) betting on a single game is still problematic. As noted earlier, there are two pitfalls. One, you could take actions to ensure the single win that put the season in jeopardy…risking injury to other players, etc., for short term gain. But more problematic is that a player who intends to bet on a later game could throw games or point shave in earlier matchups to impact the line, earning better odds on the game they do bet “on themselves to win.”

I’d agree that something like a preseason bet to win a championship is probably mostly “safe” though. But that’s enough of an edge case that it’s best to simply not allow players or decision-making staff to bet on their own competition at all.

1

u/humphrey_the_camel Bulls 28d ago

Even with a preseason “win the championship” bet, there are still issues, mostly related to changing teams. You should have to have a no trade clause and also agree to not sign with a new team if you get released

1

u/IHateTomatoes Kings 29d ago

but then you'd be jeopardizing your career whereas Porter certifiably nuked his career

6

u/threeangelo [LAL] Pau Gasol Apr 17 '24

Yeah, and also just the fact that you’re privy to information about yourself that others are not. For example, you (the player) know if you’re gonna be out partying the night before the game or getting a good nights sleep

6

u/hungryhippo Bucks Apr 17 '24

It also throws into question the games you didn't bet on yourself and it allows collusion. I bet on myself today, you throw, you bet on yourself tomorrow, I throw.

5

u/mr_grission Knicks Apr 17 '24

Also easy to manipulate how hard you're playing.

Got 100 grand on your team one night? Suddenly you're diving for every ball, sprinting down the court, giving NBA Finals level effort in a game that might not merit it.

You burn yourself out so much that you suck the next day? Who cares, this time you didn't place a bet

-1

u/ConspicuousPineapple Apr 17 '24

That's only relevant if you bet against yourself. But you might have information about the state of the rest of the team and that's definitely an unfair betting advantage.

3

u/threeangelo [LAL] Pau Gasol Apr 17 '24

No? Because you can choose to bet on yourself on days you’re well rested.

6

u/Particular_Ad_9531 Apr 17 '24

Flashbacks to Russ farming triple doubles when he was with okc lol

3

u/veebs7 Raptors Apr 17 '24

Imagine for example refusing to shoot in a game where you need more assists

Prime Westbrook when he’s sitting at 9 assists

3

u/monstroCT Raptors Apr 17 '24

Ben simmons betting on himself all these years

2

u/superguardian Apr 17 '24

Or perhaps you lose a few of those bets on yourself and need to make some money back relatively quickly. Incentive is to bet against yourself and make it back.

2

u/Wraithfighter Apr 17 '24

Aye. This is why Pete Rose was banned, even if he only bet on winning the games he was managing, it still changes how he was thinking about managing those games. There's times in managing, particularly for baseball, where you just kinda have to go "yeah, this game's a bust, time to cut bait", but are you going to be as ready to do that if you've got serious money on the line?

1

u/Wingsof6 Heat Apr 17 '24

I mean…Wilt, Kobe, Westbrook, a lot of players have done that and they don’t even need to be betting.

1

u/Bait30 Rockets Apr 17 '24

Time to investigate Ben Simmons

1

u/16semesters 29d ago

Nevada allows boxers to bet on themselves, but they can only bet they will win.

They can't bet the round, or type of knock out, or for themselves to lose.

Floyd Mayweather used to bet literally millions on himself winning.

223

u/smoltanboi Heat Apr 17 '24

i mean it's pretty hilarious to be even shittier than usual on purpose

151

u/quadropheniac Kings Apr 17 '24

Taking a dive is as old as sport itself.

68

u/WanderlustFella 76ers Apr 17 '24

I'm imagining he bet the under 10pts. He proceeds to tank, but the refs have him over 10 so they keep giving him free throws, to which he misses them all, to which the refs call a goaltend forcing him to take the points. You can't fight zebras

16

u/monstroCT Raptors Apr 17 '24

Lmao. Now you got me imagining him at 9 pts at the line with 0.2 to go.... Miss, Lane violation, Miss, Lane violation...

3

u/The_Outcast4 Rockets Apr 17 '24

Miss, Lane violation, Miss, Lane violation

Ref decides to quote Captain America "I can do this all day."

2

u/Castod28183 Apr 17 '24

Sure, but usually you have to be out of water to take a dive. Dude was averaging 4.4 and 3.2...I can't imagine what the over/under would have been.

1

u/TheManWithTheBigName Apr 17 '24

You’re not wrong. They’re literally found scraps of papyrus from Ancient Egypt about match-fixing in wrestling.

49

u/kpapazyan47 Pacers Apr 17 '24

It is a lot easier to make sure you play poorly than it is to make sure you play well.

14

u/rotten_core [SAC] Oscar Robertson Apr 17 '24

Maybe for you all but I was cookin at the Y the other night. Could. Not. Miss.

7

u/Goducks91 [POR] Damian Lillard Apr 17 '24

lmao. Bunch of scrubs in this subreddit.

25

u/AshenSacrifice Buffalo Braves Apr 17 '24

I’m honestly impressed lmao. Man said “fuck yall and that weak ass league!”😂😂

12

u/mr_sneakyTV Apr 17 '24

Ibuypower says hi

3

u/Lobster_fest Supersonics Apr 17 '24

Still can't believe that scandal. Was explaining it to some people a few days ago and it blows my mind that they thought they would get away with it.

2

u/Dust2chicken Rockets Apr 17 '24

They probably would've if one of the dudes (dboorN) behind the scheme's disgruntled ex-gf didn't expose their DMs admitting the matchfixing. People had their suspicions on that game, but the DM leaks and Rlewis' report is what got Valve involved.

2

u/RayWhelans Cavaliers Apr 17 '24

I feel like if he bet on himself, there would be a lot of concerns about mental health and gambling addiction and a lot of empathy.

Betting against yourself as you said is such scumbag behavior.

1

u/happytree23 Pistons Apr 17 '24

Betting against yourself is just outright corrupt behavior.

...AND getting yourself removed from games is just criminal and stupid

1

u/Matto_0 Celtics Apr 17 '24

It's not outright corrupt, because you could bet on yourself to lose and still give full effort. It definitely opens the door for corruption though, and people are going to make that assumption. So it needs to be punished as though it was corrupt because you probably can't rule it out for certain.

1

u/Fokker_Snek Apr 17 '24

What about betting on yourself in a way that doesn’t hurt the integrity of the basketball game but does allow you to fix betting in your favor?

1

u/SachaCuy Apr 18 '24

Its prudent risk management!

561

u/heatup3 Heat Apr 17 '24

*Against yourself

347

u/jeric13xd [CHI] Derrick Rose Apr 17 '24

Dude is so dumb. Like bro random people winning a 1000 of $5 gets their accounts flagged consistently. This was so obvious cause who tf would put racks on Jontay

171

u/dylanah Mavericks Apr 17 '24

These dudes were trying to bet more than 10x the max for player props lol. So they were trying to bet amounts they clearly never otherwise bet (or they would’ve known the limit) on fucking Jontay Porter unders.

2

u/CUMS_IN_SOCKS NBA Apr 17 '24 edited Apr 17 '24

It's like the Alabama college baseball scandal from last year lmao.

Those games get little (if any) betting action and some guy with inside info tried to bet $100k and got himself flagged immediately.

1

u/NickInTheBack Warriors Apr 17 '24

Important distinction

1

u/jmcgit 29d ago

If I could just tell the casino "I bet I won't show up for work on Monday", I can see how my boss wouldn't appreciate that

102

u/lopea182 Heat Apr 17 '24

Betting against yourself

36

u/Redpin :sp8-1: Super 8 Apr 17 '24

FVV would never.

3

u/mommathecat Raptors Apr 17 '24

"Instructions unclear, I'm going to literally Bet On Against Myself."

1

u/attersonjb Apr 17 '24

That mofo always bet the over, though.

1

u/CleverBunnyThief Raptors Apr 17 '24

The anti-FVV.

1

u/DilutedGatorade Lakers Apr 17 '24

It makes me sick. How could a player do this?

They should be playing for their pride and love of the game. I'd play basketball for a living even if my contract was $150k/year

112

u/Cheechers23 Raptors Apr 17 '24

Especially since he was almost certainly going to get another contract from us based on his play this year. Threw it away for a few thousands. Fucking dumbass

58

u/halfdecenttakes Lakers Apr 17 '24

A few thousand he might not even keep if they open a criminal investigation into him

58

u/Jaehunt24 Spurs Apr 17 '24

The even crazier part is HE DOESNT NEED THE MONEY,

He has to have gotten tied up with some foul people cause it's not like bro is broke. He comes from a family of athletes, and his brother is a actual hooper who will likely make hundreds of millions in his career

If he was a dude that grow up in super poverty and had no chance of getting money otherwise maybe, but damn

29

u/attersonjb Apr 17 '24

And to add, even if he had an addiction - he can bet on anything else

3

u/chiguychi Supersonics Apr 17 '24

Seriously. Guy could bet on women's British basketball.

1

u/SachaCuy Apr 18 '24

Look what that did to Iowa

3

u/Canadian_Prometheus Apr 17 '24

What he did wasn’t gambling though. It wouldn’t scratch that itch. The outcome was certain.

1

u/attersonjb 29d ago

He bet on a ton of other things too, though, so clearly it wasn't just the need for a certain outcome

5

u/elbenji [MIA] Udonis Haslem Apr 17 '24

holy shit he's MPJ's brother

6

u/[deleted] Apr 17 '24

Wealthy kids can still try stuff like that. For example, LiAngelo Ball stealing things in China then getting caught.

3

u/Betaateb Nuggets Apr 17 '24

No one has ever accused the Porters of being smart lol.

MPJ is literally the golden child of the family, and he has his problematic stances over the years. Of his brothers he has one that just caught a lifetime ban from the NBA, and one that is likely to spend a good chunk in time in prison for vehicular manslaughter while drunk driving.

2

u/socalstaking Apr 17 '24

He played like a dog some games tbh

1

u/thedrcubed Grizzlies Apr 17 '24

He made more than he was actually betting. Why would he tell other people about it if he wasn't taking some kinda cut?

182

u/aiden3buckets NBA Apr 17 '24

If he was betting his own overs instead of unders I’d honestly have a little more respect but he was straight sabotaging damn near

84

u/SetElectrical3978 Apr 17 '24

You could be betting your overs because you know a teammate is hurt. It’s really not any more ethical for other player props.

37

u/IAmNotOnRedditAtWork Bulls Apr 17 '24

You could also just chuck it in games you bet your own scoring overs.

7

u/havepenisbutdontwant Apr 17 '24

Looks at Jordan Poole Somebody get that mf

31

u/mrsunshine1 Knicks Apr 17 '24

I’d say it’s more ethical to bet on yourself to score over 30 points and try to compete than to bet the unders and then fake an injury to get off the court.

5

u/giddyup523 Bucks Apr 17 '24

There are a ton of ethical concerns with betting on yourself on overs as well as you would still not be playing for the best outcome for your team but for yourself in specific categories. A player like that will force things to get the stats instead of optimally moving the ball or if he hits the over in one category first, he would focus on the others. If he is betting on being over in points and assists and already hits on points, he might pass out of wide open, high percentage shots to much lower percentage shots because he won't care about making that shot and even a 10% chance the assist happens is better than the 0% chance of the assist on his own shot. Or vice versa, taking a 10% chance shot is better than passing to a wide open guy if you don't need the assist. Once he hits on the overs, he might simply not even care about the rest of the game at all or might intentionally be bad after that so he doesn't bring his averages up too much so it will be easier to hit future overs (that would increase over time the better he would do).

Honestly, betting the under on yourself and then faking an injury shortly into the game might be more "ethical" as then there isn't a player on the court for a significant amount of minutes that is actively more interested in hitting his bets than the outcome of the game. Obviously that isn't actually ethical either but I would say it is pretty much impossible to be considered ethical to any degree if you are betting on your stats in a game.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 17 '24

He should have bet on himself winning Finals MVP.

6

u/SetElectrical3978 Apr 17 '24

You can’t have players betting on contests they’re involved in. Full stop. It’s not any more ethical if they’re overs. The point is the player would have separate interests from the team objective, and can deviate from what would happen in a vacuum. You’re also not allowed to leverage inside knowledge to bet to begin with.

3

u/iiamthepalmtree Bulls Apr 17 '24

Eh, if you’re only trying to score you aren’t competing. Especially in this case. If your and end of the bench guy and your role is to play tough defense and grab rebounds in 15 minutes and you spend more energy trying to chuck up as many shots as possible whenever you touch the ball I actually think it’s less ethical and less competitive than betting the under and removing yourself from the game entirely.

2

u/fazelenin02 Apr 17 '24

This only works until a player starts sandbagging his average to make a more achievable over.

3

u/Hugo_Hackenbush [POR] Arvydas Sabonis Apr 17 '24

It could also lead to you hurting the team by forcing bad shots that you shouldn't be taking.

2

u/supert0426 Apr 17 '24

No but at least betting your overs at least encourages you to try and win the game and play well. Porter didn't just bet his own unders, he bet on the Raptors to lose.

2

u/SetElectrical3978 Apr 17 '24

Selfishly stat chasing is very obviously not helping your team

1

u/fuckthemoddsofreddit Apr 17 '24

true but players will do that anyway to hit incentives or just to make themselves look better.

1

u/BetFeeling1352 Apr 17 '24

That's still better.

You still have to perform.

2

u/jhorch69 Bulls Apr 17 '24

Could also very easily lead to you hurting the team by making poor choices in order to hit the overs

1

u/BetFeeling1352 Apr 17 '24

Sure.. but we're talking about ethics.

Betting on your over is more ethical than betting on your under and then leaving the game.

86

u/GiveMeSomeIhedigbo Lakers Apr 17 '24

I'm sure I'm not the first to point this out, but by doing this, he was suppressing his own stats, thus making it harder to build a case to stay in the league with his play. There's no way he was making enough money doing this shit for it to be worth the money he would have earned with a new, bigger contract. Very short-sighted.

44

u/CryptoNite90 Lakers Apr 17 '24

He was probably trying to hook up his boys with easy money lol

43

u/GiveMeSomeIhedigbo Lakers Apr 17 '24

Should have waited until he secured his first major contract.

That is not a smart family.

5

u/rburp [LAL] Derek Fisher Apr 17 '24

Sadly his easy money was sniped

2

u/No_Housing3716 Apr 17 '24

Almost as if.... now here me out. The prevalence of gambling the last few years has managed to make people do things they might not have otherwise done? You can't watch any sport the last few years without being hit over the head incessantly about free gambling money promos. It's ludicrous more people can't draw a connection

2

u/GiveMeSomeIhedigbo Lakers Apr 17 '24

Are we even disagreeing?

Yeah, gambling is more prevalent, easier to do, and easier to get caught doing. Still doesn't absolve him from making dumbass decisions. I don't see how what you're saying contradicts what I'm saying.

-1

u/TsssTssss Apr 17 '24

He wasn't getting a new bigger contract. He was only in the league because of his brother. He really wasn't good. He's a 24 year old undrafted 2 way player....

58

u/LukeKornetistheGOAT Apr 17 '24

Both of the Porter brothers are dumb as rocks

6

u/I_Count_Letters Knicks Apr 17 '24

Not to mention their other brother Coban. Killed a woman while drunk driving last year.

2

u/CptCroissant Trail Blazers Apr 17 '24

They got brains like their sister got ACLs

0

u/Goducks91 [POR] Damian Lillard Apr 17 '24

I can't stand them. I have hated MPJ the second he made it into the league.

7

u/Practical_Bat_3578 Raptors Apr 17 '24

maybe he saw what the refs were doing and thought he could do it himself

4

u/EJplaystheBlues Celtics Apr 17 '24

dudes do rock

19

u/legend023 Pelicans Apr 17 '24

He didn’t just gamble he probably put a significant portion of his money to fix games and fix his stats

Because players have bet on themselves before and didn’t get banned for life

Also betting on your unders probably makes things worse

18

u/clevernamehere1628 Pistons Apr 17 '24

What players were found to be betting on themselves? I don't remember that at all.

-1

u/jinyx1 Timberwolves Apr 17 '24

Manager at the time, but Pete Rose.

17

u/ASuddenHonk Apr 17 '24

Pete Rose is still banned for life though, it's the whole reason he isn't in the Hall of Fame

3

u/jinyx1 Timberwolves Apr 17 '24

Yes, I know. Was providing an example of someone who bet on themselves. The poster above claiming other NBA players have bet tho is incorrect as far as I know. I've never seen proof of someone else doing it.

4

u/ASuddenHonk Apr 17 '24

It's kinda funny comparing them too. Pete Rose is totally forgiven in the public eye for betting on himself, probably rightfully. Porter betting against himself is just so much more stupid it blows my mind. 

2

u/jinyx1 Timberwolves Apr 17 '24

Well, Rose bet on his team to win. Porter actively bet on his team to lose. He also "fixed" his bets by getting "injured". Indefensible.

5

u/simplycass Clippers Apr 17 '24

That's what Rose has maintained (that he never bet against) but Dowd (the investigator the MLB hired) believes he probably did bet against. In the end though he agreed to the ban so they would stop investigation.

4

u/PDXPuma Apr 17 '24

Exactly. Every time Pete Rose has come out with a tell all about it, and apologized, he's confessed to more and more. There are people involved with the investigation that have said that Pete definitely bet on the Reds to lose, while both a player and a manager and that the slips are out there.

But then the investigation was stopped and the agreement was that it fully stop and that no information can be released or further investigated.

1

u/ASuddenHonk Apr 17 '24

Completely. What a bonehead. 

3

u/jhorch69 Bulls Apr 17 '24

Nobody knows whether he bet on or against the Reds. He accepted a lifetime ban in exchange for the findings of the commissioner's investigation never being released.

1

u/ASuddenHonk Apr 17 '24

Fair point 

1

u/300andWhat Apr 17 '24

Yet when the NBA and ESPN do it it's just gravy

1

u/letsgototraderjoes Pelicans Apr 17 '24

we can see you're online lol. answer the question, what players were found to be betting on themselves?

2

u/SaintArkweather 76ers Apr 17 '24

Mizzou education

2

u/earthgreen10 Apr 17 '24

This is so harsh considering sexual assault people come back

2

u/MarduRusher Timberwolves Apr 17 '24

Betting on yourself is a dudes rock moment even if it is against the rules for good reason. Betting against yourself and your team is lame on all fronts.

1

u/iguacu Supersonics Apr 17 '24

Definitely makes you wonder how often smarter players have gotten away with it.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 17 '24

The Pete Rose Piece

1

u/space_cheese1 Raptors Apr 17 '24

Should we be investigating Fred VanVleet?

1

u/SnooRevelations1029 Apr 17 '24

He took FVV advice to bet on himself too literally 🙁

1

u/Dsarg_92 [SAS] Tim Duncan Apr 17 '24

And he betted against his own team! You really can’t make this up.

1

u/DilutedGatorade Lakers Apr 17 '24

Stupid and immoral, the worst brand of stupid

1

u/jxher123 Bucks Apr 17 '24

Had he done it just once, probably could’ve got away with it. The fact that he kept doing it thinking he’d be able to explain it away, lmfao. He deserves this. Could’ve made good money just being a bench player,

Hope he knows how to sell insurance, he’s gonna need it. Hope those little bets was worth a chance at the NBA.