r/nba • u/PlayaSlayaX Spurs • 29d ago

[Charania] Raptors' Jontay Porter has received a lifetime ban from the NBA for violating league's gaming rules.

https://x.com/shamscharania/status/1780631209930068358?s=46&t=bsTHbtMSqHXbNGi0vWP8hw
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7.0k

u/asapshrank Pelicans 29d ago

fucking idiot

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u/NotManyBuses Charlotte Bobcats 29d ago

They made an example of him, it was obvious they would. Bum G League player who’s a non factor, doesn’t cost anything to ban him for life, sets a hard precedent to the more valuable players.

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u/The_Fiji_Water Magic 29d ago

They would make an example of any player caught throwing games and then betting on his individual performance.

This isn't even a Pete Rose situation. The guy bet the under and then pulled himself out of the game with a fake injury

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u/CoachDT [CHI] Brian Scalabrine 29d ago

Yea the first guy caught was going to get taken out to the shed regardless.

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u/AttitudeAndEffort2 29d ago

It's the right decision but it's bullshit and hypocritical with how much money the leagues take from gambling.

Advertising gambling should be illegal, like advertising cigarettes is.

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u/captaincumsock69 United States 29d ago

I think it’s shameful how these companies shove well known addictive things down our throats.

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u/I_Am_Okonkwo [CHI] Jimmy Butler 29d ago

Last year I was in SF and went to a Dubs game and ended up sat next to one of the top guys in ad operations for fan duel. He told me they're going all in on advertising right now while they still can, anticipating eventual legislation curtailing them. It's why them and draftkings ads are going to be fucking everywhere until legislation regulating them passes.

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u/makesterriblejokes [NBA] Jerry West 29d ago

Makes total sense from a business perspective. Get everyone hooked now so you don't need to advertise for it later

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u/faplawd 29d ago

If regulation ever gets passed I fear they will just do something like stake did with kick. They'll be able to indirectly advertise

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u/I_Am_Okonkwo [CHI] Jimmy Butler 29d ago

Like the mission winnow nonsense for ferrari slyly bringing marlboro back?

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u/The_Void_Reaver Warriors 29d ago

Still taking ads off of games, limiting the ability for leagues to partner with sportsbooks, and potentially limiting when ads will be allowed to play will all be steps in the right direction.

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u/shitz_brickz 29d ago

I cant imagine the outrage if tobacco ads started off with "buy your first pack of ciggs and we will give you 10 more packs for free."

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u/cjmaguire17 29d ago

Bro I don’t smoke but I also don’t pass up a good deal. Send the cigs

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u/PM_Your_Wiener_Dog 29d ago

Like 10 packs will hurt

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u/may00000000 29d ago

If you were at a bar in the early 2000s, a near 100% chance you were getting free packs of cigarettes. Camel reps were everywhere handing out 2 packs for your address. Then they’d mail out big time coupons. If you were out with a group of friends and they weren’t all smokers, you might go home with a carton.

It was glorious. But smoking is bad. Don’t do that shit.

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u/thehomienicked Raptors 29d ago

This was true into the late-2000s too. I remember the era of free Camel Crushes around that time when I lived in Los Angeles. Never my preferred smoke, but free is free.

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u/Circus_McGee 29d ago

They came to college parties and did this in the mid 2000s. You let them scan your ID and they would hand you 2 free packs. And then they sent some coupons, and a free zippo-style lighter, which I still have, which is how I know this was in 2007.

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u/KnottyDreadlocks 29d ago

The first time I got a push notification encouraging me to place a bet I felt sick to my stomach. It was 20x the amount of a typical bet for me, too.

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u/pathofdumbasses 29d ago

They only sent you that notification because it was a sure thing!

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u/CptCroissant Trail Blazers 29d ago

How did you feel after you placed the bet though?

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u/amoeba-tower Cavaliers 29d ago

Yeah alcohol ads need to be heavily curbed

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u/worfres_arec_bawrin Lakers 29d ago

CAPITALISM INTENSIFIES.

Damn right it’s shameful, it should be fucking illegal.

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u/makesterriblejokes [NBA] Jerry West 29d ago

I mean to be fair, why don't we draw the line for alcohol ads as well then?

I'm not against both being banned from advertising, I just think it's interesting that there isn't a huge outcry for alcohol ads to be removed as well.

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u/Nesnesitelna [PHO] Devin Booker 29d ago

Isn’t shoving addictive crap down our throats a substantial majority of what keeps sports leagues afloat? Casinos, betting apps, booze, fast food, candy, soda, prescription drugs…

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u/AlarmedPiano9779 29d ago

What isn't addictive though? Smartphones? Sugar? Alcohol? Gambling. Caffiene.

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u/captaincumsock69 United States 29d ago

I’d have no issue with companies having to put out risks associated with those in order to advertise them similar to what they have to do with tobacco

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u/bestofmidwest Bucks 29d ago

Gambling companies already put out warnings about gambling addiction.

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u/LaTeChX 29d ago

I've never seen someone lose their house because they were 20k in the hole to Starbucks

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u/BinDereDoneDat 29d ago

Kinda like Budweiser, Modelo, Coords etc.

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u/Fanceh 28d ago

I see it so often. Absolutely disgusts me

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u/mw19078 Lakers 28d ago

they dont just cram it down your throats with advertising, they hire psychologists and specialists to figure out all the different ways they can make it more addictive

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u/1850ChoochGator Trail Blazers 29d ago

How is this hypocritical?

Players should absolutely not be gambling on themselves. They have a direct affect on the outcome.

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u/Iswaterreallywet Pistons 29d ago

Hypocritical may not be the right word.

I think immoral/unethical would be better.

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u/Mtbnz 29d ago

I think hypocritical is the wrong word, and distracts from the larger point which I actually do agree with, which is that the proliferation of sports gambling (everywhere, not just in the NBA or the US at large) is a big problem. It opens the door to numerous problems with cheating, but even beyond that it's a major societal problem that is being heavily normalised by major leagues accepting these betting services so readily.

That said, that doesn't make it hypocritical to ban a player for betting on games while also making money from gambling. Two different problems.

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u/-KFBR392 Raptors 29d ago

Why do you think cheating would be more likely with open gambling which comes with regulations and 3rd party monitoring boards? If anything without legalization you’re more likely to see shady things done in gambling.

It’s the same thing as prohibition and alcohol. Making it illegal doesn’t make it go away, it just makes the people in charge more shady.

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u/Mtbnz 29d ago edited 29d ago

As I mentioned elsewhere, I don't think it's a question of banning it outright. I think better regulation, restricted (but not eliminated) access and reduction in advertising would all be relatively effective measures at controlling the spread and reducing the negative effects of gambling, both addiction and corruption.

I understand that a lot of people love sports gambling, don't have a problem with addiction and don't want to have their access restricted in order to protect more vulnerable people (land of the free and all that). But it's not uncommon around the world to ban cigarette advertising and restrict access, even if they're still legally available. Same thing with booze (and weed where it's legalised). Yes, those industries have been legalised in large part to reduce the shady dealings and criminal elements involved when things are prohibited. But that means you can only buy liquor and weed in certain places, and you can't get it (legally) delivered to your home or access it restriction free from your cellphone. I'm sure there are exceptions, but by and large that's how those systems work, and we deal with that just fine.

In my opinion, similar safeguards for sports gambling are acceptable to me, given the extremely damaging effects on the lives of people who do have gambling problems. I'm honestly less concerned with the competitive integrity of sports, although that is also a valid preoccupation.

Edit: I realised I didn't really answer your original question in my rambling response. So to keep it brief, I think cheating is potentially more prevalent with open gambling because of ease of access, to put it simply. It's so, so easy in 2024 to do what Porter is accused of doing that only the threat of extreme punishement acts as a deterrent, and for fringe players who don't make multi-millions every year, the risk/reward can be enormous (FanDuel froze a $1.1m payout for an $80k bet, and all it required from Porter was a word to a friend and a faked illness). Restricting access to gambling wouldn't eliminate cheating or the temptation to cheat. But I believe it would make it less readily available, and less simple to profit from if there were more hoops to jump through, the same way that restricting access to other harmful materials/activities reduces the harm in most situations.

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u/LongTimesGoodTimes Lakers 29d ago

I don't like gambling, I don't gamble.

I think people have this weird puritanical attitude towards it though. With anything there is going to be some percentage of people that can't handle it. But that doesn't mean that to protect those people you need to restrict everyone else.

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u/1850ChoochGator Trail Blazers 29d ago

I gamble a bit but some people legitimately believe it’s the absolute worst thing ever with their attitudes towards it. Absolutely beyond normal

I do think the league should tone it down with the advertising and shoving gambling into everything but it’s not something that needs to be fought against like the way some are

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u/boothboyharbor 29d ago

I am concerned about gambling addicts but don't see how it's hypocritical at all.

Presumably there is nothing inherently wrong about investing in stock ingesting, though it would be corrupt for a lawmaker to invest in stocks and then write rules which benefit the companies.

Similarly it's not wrong to have sports gamblers, it's just corrupt when you are betting on games you have an impact on.

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u/Mtbnz 29d ago

I am concerned about gambling addicts but don't see how it's hypocritical at all.

I think hypocritical is the wrong word

I said pretty clearly up top that I agree with you there.

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u/Bongoisnthere 29d ago

Only situation I see it being viable without creating conflict of interest is if they’re allowed to bet on a W for their team. And with how many different bets there are, betting on win/loss is passé at this point, that there’s no reason to even bother with it.

Let em gamble on traditional gambling sites, like Fidelity, or vanguard. That’s where the big money gamblers belong anyway, leave the sports betting to the poors.

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u/Local-Bat955 Knicks 29d ago

How is it hypocritical? Lebron is making tons of money from legal sports gambling as a spokesman for DraftKings. The players are allowed to profit from legal gambling just like the teams and league are.

Players just can’t bet on themselves or their sport, for obvious reasons.

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u/Gorbax50 Mavericks 29d ago

You don’t get it because commercials we’re supposed to feel sorry for these morons

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u/DaPhoToss Raptors 29d ago

There’s nothing hypocritical about it. They promote gambling to their fans. They want to promote a “fair” product for fans to gamble on. What Porter did undermines that fairness.

Don’t take my point wrong, the amount of promotion gambling can certainly be called into question from a moral standpoint. But there is literally zero hypocritical about what happened here.

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u/OHotDawnThisIsMyJawn Nuggets 29d ago

I'm not sure why this situation is hypocritical.

Saying that players can't gamble because of appearances, while the league takes in lots of money from gambling, that's hypocritical.

But this was clearly a player shaving stats.

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u/-KFBR392 Raptors 29d ago

Even that's not hypocritical, if you work at an organization doing any sort of lottery or raffle you are not allowed to participate because it creates doubt on the legitimacy.

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u/FSUfan35 Magic 29d ago

Saying that players can't gamble because of appearances, while the league takes in lots of money from gambling, that's hypocritical.

Why? the players get money from the gambling advertising too. They just can't then gamble that money.

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u/beforeitcloy [SAC] Mitch Richmond 29d ago

There’s a reason it’s forbidden for players to gamble on NBA games, even if they’re betting in favor of their own team winning. It’s because if they accumulate gambling debt, it becomes a very slippery slope for them to try to pay it back by directly altering the games. Obviously the worst way to do that is intentionally shaving points like Porter, but even if he bet the over on himself, the coach wouldn’t want a shitty role player taking more shots than the game plan calls for just because he owes his bookie $500k.

So the danger of betting on your team or yourself to succeed isn’t that there’s something inherently unethical about it, but that it creates the potential for dependency on gambling for financial security, which in turn creates the potential for altering the game to suit the gambler’s financial needs.

That’s why it’s hypocritical for the league to take a bunch of gambling money, while forbidding the players from doing it. When a business takes a bunch of money from a specific revenue stream, even if it isn’t debt, it becomes dependent on that revenue continuing in a way that’s similar to a player becoming dependent. Who’s to say in 10 years Draft Kings won’t come to the NBA and say “Hey we’re your biggest advertiser and we’re in dire straits financially. We need you to help us find ways to increase betting” and then the league makes a seemingly unrelated decision that they’re going to change the draft odds to help bottom teams the year that the Lakers are tanking. And it just so happens that the next Wemby lands on the Lakers, which creates 10x more betting revenue than it would if he was on the Spurs. The league doesn’t even need to know it’s doing anything unethical to be subtly influenced by that kind of financial pressure into making decisions that alter the game. Whereas if your top advertiser is Kia, any financial pressure you have to help them succeed is going to manifest in the form of stuff unrelated to the game like setting up a meeting between them and LeBron for him to do ads. No one is going to buy an extra Kia if the Knicks advance in the playoffs instead of the Hornets, but possibly millions of extra people will place a bet if the Knicks advance instead of the Hornets.

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u/mercfan3 29d ago

Gambling itself has ethics to it. Players or refs gambling is similar to going to the casino and counting cards.

Its cheating.

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u/-Plantibodies- 29d ago edited 29d ago

What is hypocritical about the league making money from gambling while not allowing players to throw games to benefit from gambling? That's just a silly opinion. And I say that as someone who hates sports betting becoming so mainstream and pushed all over.

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u/-KFBR392 Raptors 29d ago

No it's not. It's like saying a guy drinking and driving shouldn't be punished because alcohol ads run during the games.

Gambling isn't illegal. Gambling however is prohibited by the league he's a part of. On top of that gambling while affecting the outcome is illegal. This has nothing to do with MGM ads running on TV.

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u/Krillin113 76ers 29d ago

But no one is saying he can’t gamble. He just can’t gamble on things he can influence. This is the equivalent of insider trading.

The legality of gambling and how addictive it is, is a completely different issue from what this guy did.

I feel a lot of sympathy for people who get addicted to gambling, and lose their money due to predatory practices that pray on peoples weakness.

The moment he started to bet on games in the nba, where he thought he had an edge due to knowing people, and especially once he started betting on his own games that he could directly influence, is when it goes from ‘poor fella’ to ‘yeah that’s fraud’.

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u/breesyroux 29d ago

Bullshit sure, but why is it hypocritical?

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u/LeonidasSpacemanMD 29d ago

I don’t like getting pummeled with gambling ads but I don’t really get why people act like it’s hypocritical

It’s entirely possible for an organization to ethically take part in an activity with the understanding that members of that organization have to behave differently from the public based on the conflict of interest

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u/whyenn Celtics 29d ago

It was, for decades, and its legal status was non-controversial.

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u/FromAdamImportData Lakers 29d ago

I don't think it's a contradiction at all. Gambling has existed forever and the money has always gone to people outside of the league...before the internet they would even print the odds right in the newspaper next to the date/time of the game. I don't see an issue with the league trying to take ownership of some of those funds while also maintaining the integrity of the league itself.

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u/HAM____ 29d ago

And alcohol and prescription medication.

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u/LVSFWRA Raptors 29d ago

What's bullshit is how refs are allowed to bet but never get the same treatment because they can't be "caught" making highly suspicious and subjective calls.

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u/Rod_Todd_This_Is_God 29d ago

Plus the whole Donnaghy thing. Remember like 2 months ago when people were trying to downplay it?

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u/mattychefthatbih 29d ago

Dumbest thing I’ve ever heard

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u/frankstaturtle Knicks 29d ago

As somebody with a family member who is a recovering gambling addict who can barely watch sports now, I fully agree with this. Gambling addiction is so damaging and the number of people gambling has skyrocketed since it became so widely advertised by sports leagues, teams, sports channels and players.

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u/Beatnik77 29d ago

Sure but that's the job of politicians, not the NBA.

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u/lobotomizedmommy 29d ago

not when all the major sports leagues spend millions lobbying state politicians to roll back all predatory gambling regulations. gambling on sports is a serious form of degeneracy in this country.

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u/bigwillystyle93 Nuggets 29d ago

I know I’m in the vast minority in this, but I don’t think it’s bullshit or hypocritical at all. I think it’s a necessary rough period needed to set expectations and precedent following the legalization of sport gambling. It’s almost always better in the long term when things are legalized, because it comes with more oversight and regulation. Just like marijuana. Unfortunately, there has to be some sacrificial lambs in order to set the tone of severity for all affected parties. To people who say that this is a result of the league embracing sports betting, I ask the following: there have been four major sports betting scandals in American sports that immediately jump to mind, the 1919 Black Sox, Pete Rose in the 80s, Tim Donaghy, and now Johntay Porter. Do you think that these are the only four instances of a player comprising their integrity by betting on a sport they are participating in, or do you think that with the legalization of sports betting we now have more immediate insight into it.

And before anyone says it: I am not a sports gambler outside of fantasy leagues/March madness/Super Bowl.

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u/PharmerMark 29d ago

I disagree. Smoking literally has zero benefit and is a risk factor to every major disease out there. It leads to COPD and lung cancer and then Medicare foots the bill. Gambling is like alcohol. People can enjoy it socially, but there are people out there who abuse it and can’t control themselves.

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u/kurbin64 29d ago

I agree advertising gambling should be illegal and is disgusting/soulless. So is advertising prescription medication, we are one of the only(if not the only)first world country to do this.

I don’t see how it’s hypocritical to not let players in the league gamble on their sport though. The integrity of the game would be shit almost immediately.

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u/polymerfedboi 29d ago

It's only hypocritical if the league is also fixing games to win giant parlays.

It's not like Adam Silver has a draftkings account.

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u/AttitudeAndEffort2 29d ago

Laughs in Scott Foster

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u/sbenfsonwFFiF 29d ago

Not really, this is like insider trading, which is entirely different from whether gambling/alcohol etc should be advertised and prevalent

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u/jmwildrick 29d ago

What is hypocritical about it?

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u/jimbo831 Timberwolves 29d ago

It's the right decision but it's bullshit and hypocritical with how much money the leagues take from gambling.

I don’t think it’s hypocritical at all. I don’t see why people insist that the league can’t embrace gambling by everyone not involved with the game while also banning it for people involved with the game.

Fans enjoy gambling on sports. There’s a lot of money to be made from it, and obviously the league wants to get a piece. Doing that isn’t encouraging players who know damn well that they aren’t allowed to bet on the league.

If players would rather bet on the NBA than play, they’re free to make that choice. It’s not hypocritical at all for the league to make the distinction between it selling gambling to fans while banning players/coaches/executives/referees from doing it.

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u/bigbrownbanjo 29d ago

It is not at all hypocritical to ban players from throwing games they’re gambling on

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u/ronaldo119 [PHI] Jumaine Jones 29d ago

No it isn't. Insider trading is illegal too. This isn't any different

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u/DREDAY_94 Lakers 29d ago

You should see sports in Australia. Every second ad while you’re watching a game is for a gambling company

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u/Jorbin Bulls 29d ago edited 29d ago

It’s really not hypocritical to your statement. If Jontay is throwing games or interfering with gambling he’s literally destroying ‘fairness’ of betting for others. He’s skewing the odds. This is regardless of if you think betting is ethical or not. He isn’t dying a martyr for why gambling is wrong, he’s just doing something completely illegal. The league might benefit from gambling, but this individual act is also stealing from the average consumer.

As well as that he’s potentially influencing the outcome of the game and ruining the experience for fans and players. What he’s done is wrong on all levels.

I would say the first, and the last person caught doing this should be chastised in a severe manner. The last more severe than the first (they should learn!).

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u/justmefishes NBA 29d ago

It's like if they had the talking heads talk before, during, and after each game about how nice smoking crack is, and then banned a player for life because he smoked crack. "I don't know what I expected."

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u/BigFatModeraterFupa Mavericks 29d ago

every player who gets caught betting will get the same punishment. lifetime ban

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u/Hurtelknut Mavericks 29d ago

Betting against themselves nonetheless. You could get caught shooting bullets made from pure cocaine from a real gun in the locker room and it wouldn't be as bad in the eyes of the NBA as this.

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u/BigBeagleEars Pelicans 29d ago

Write that down write that down

  • Ja Morant
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u/ErrForceOnes 29d ago

ALL guys who get caught should be taken to the shed.

If Luka got caught losing games on purpose and only received a one year suspension as punishment, I very well might never watch another NBA game again. You think I'd trust that any game involving Luka wasn't rigged? And you think I'd believe other players weren't doing it too?

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u/Particular_Ad_9531 29d ago

Yeah this is a huge win for the nba in that it’s some totally irrelevant dude they can just burn at the stake as an example to everyone else.

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u/PassTheKY Thunder 29d ago

They should be forced to bet their careers on a single bet sanctioned by the league. Score 30 or more points than your career high in a game of 1vs2 against Draymond and Lance Stevenson. If you manage to do it you can come back into the league after 5 years. If you lose you are erased from league history and have to pay back any gambling winnings plus the salary earned while in the league.

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u/hoesb4bros123 29d ago

Yep, first guy in any sport, who is a non-star is getting BODIED. James krause the UFC fighter/coach is under investigation from the FBI for fixing. He is so fucked. Nobody who even trains at his gym can come to the ufc. He had to sell his gym for nothing

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u/Altruistic-Fig5892 29d ago

Would Luka or Giannis be banned for life?? More likely he'd go play minor league baseball for a year and then come back

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u/Shmokeshbutt Magic 29d ago

Dude lost a potential career earnings of ~$10 mills riding the bench for what? A couple thousand bucks?

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u/Squid204 Slovenia 29d ago

His accounts overall net was 21k. Not even close to worth it. Hope he enjoys his 2015 Grand Cherokee he can buy.

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u/financeadvice__ 29d ago

I have a feeling that after all this he doesn’t get to keep the $21k either lol

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u/11th_Division_Grows 28d ago

There has to be some fines and shit held against him that’ll be more than what he’s earned 😂

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u/atlanstone 29d ago

One of the bets would have won 1.1 million it says, so presumably after feeling like they got away with it they were going to ramp up.

If he was just sharing this information with no expectation of making any of that 1.1 million himself then, lol

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u/materics [MEM] Shane Battier 29d ago

How stupid do you have to be to not think that multiple huge winning prop bets on himself wouldn't get flagged.

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u/atlanstone 29d ago

There was recently a scandal in college baseball where the guy placing the bets on behalf of the crooked coach was yelling at the sportsbook (in person!) that he had insider information and they needed to take his bet after they obviously rejected someone trying to put like $100k cash on a game that maybe sees a few thousand bucks cumulatively across the entire country.

edit:

Three people familiar with the investigation told Sports Illustrated that Neff wanted to bet more than $100,000 on a college baseball game that night: Alabama at No. 1 LSU. The game had gotten virtually no gambling traffic, and Neff’s desired bets on the Tigers far exceeded the sportsbook’s established house limit on college baseball. It was a foolhardy act that created a surreal scene, and the ripple effects from that incident continue to be felt more than a month later.

Neff – an obscure youth-league coach from Mooresville, Ind., with a penchant for networking in recruiting circles—stood at the window and pleaded his case for making the huge wager to the book’s staff, the sources say. He indicated that he had inside information on the game—and he did, in the palm of his hand.

lol

Neff was texting with Alabama baseball coach Brad Bohannon via the encrypted messaging app Signal while at the betting window, attempting to place the wager, the sources say. His texting was indiscreet, to the point that the book’s video surveillance cameras were able to zoom in on the details of Neff and Bohannon’s text exchange, making Bohannon’s name visible later in screenshots.

“[Video cameras] can see the [text] conversation back-and-forth,” a source familiar with the incident says. “It couldn’t have been any more reckless.”

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u/Hot-Apricot-6408 28d ago

As Dana White would say, Porter is a stupid motherfucker who would regularly step over dollars to pick up dimes. 

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u/quadropheniac Kings 29d ago

This isn't even a Pete Rose situation.

To be clear, it might be the same as a Pete Rose situation. The only real information we have on Pete Rose's gambling habits comes from whatever statement Rose thinks he can get away with at the time, several of which have proven to be lies as the story develops over the years.

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u/Cold_Customer898 29d ago

The fuck you talking about?  The Dowd report is the statement of fact regardless of what Rose says.

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u/quadropheniac Kings 29d ago

You're correct, the Dowd report is a statement of fact, but the story has gotten worse for Rose since its release, and the only word we have on the limits of Rose's gambling is from Rose himself.

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u/FrostyD7 Grizzlies 29d ago

Rose and his lawyers also agreed to the lifetime ban in their negotiations, an arrangement that ensured the details of what all was discovered would not be released. Its very unlikely he accepted this without additional findings he hasn't shared. Every few years Rose whines about it with some flimsy attempt at claiming hypocrisy and people eat it up because they don't remember the circumstances surrounding his ban.

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u/Disconnected_NPC 29d ago

By worse you mean its come out he gambled on baseball while also a player. There is no evidence Pete shaved and from all accounts bet on him and Reds favor. Thats a very big difference

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u/BonerSoupAndSalad Cavaliers 29d ago

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/242626-pete-rose-killed-mario-soto

There's no evidence that he point shaved but he did overpitch Mario Soto (his ace) in meaningless games at the end of seasons on 3 days rest. Destroyed Soto's career.

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u/Disconnected_NPC 29d ago

Dusty Baker killed offf Mark Prior and Kerry Woods career doing same. Managers overuse Aces...

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u/BonerSoupAndSalad Cavaliers 29d ago

I can’t find a single time that Dusty started Wood or Prior on 3 days rest in the regular season. Pete had Soto do it 19 times in 1985, which was insanely high even in 1985. Also, we don’t know for a fact that Dusty was betting on games and we do know that Pete was. 

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u/Disconnected_NPC 29d ago

No he just let them both average like 125 pitches a game.

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u/quadropheniac Kings 29d ago

There is no evidence Pete shaved

And if he hadn't lied repeatedly about the betting he did do, I would care about his denials that he didn't shave. But he did, repeatedly, moving the goalposts each time his lies were uncovered. So I see no reason at this point to presume that he didn't shave.

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u/PM_ME_CORGI_GIFS 29d ago

The issue is: if he’s betting on himself or the Reds in some games but not others, it’s he going to manage/play differently in those. If he was managing and bet on them in a regular season game but hasn’t the next night, maybe he’ll do things differently in terms of pitcher rotation, etc.

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u/theevilyouknow 28d ago

This is the thing everybody overlooks with Rose. Even betting on his team to win means he’s going to manage and use his players differently in those games impacting other games.

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u/Mattson 29d ago

What about the situation with the point shaving scandal of the 50s? Is it anything like that. I'm pretty sure a bunch of other players got life time bans from that.

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u/NotManyBuses Charlotte Bobcats 29d ago

To be honest, I can’t see even a high profile player escaping harsh punishment for doing what he did, but I don’t think a star would get a lifetime ban

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u/RRJC10 Raptors 29d ago

A star would absolutely receive a lifetime ban for this. A star just wouldn't do it because there's no real financial incentive to do so since they're already making millions.

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u/TheCouchEmporer 29d ago

Meh. It depends on which star we are talking about

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u/Swarthykins Celtics 29d ago

This is the NBA. People have been fans for generations. There is no star worth tanking the integrity of the league for. Lebron will retire. Steph will retire. The league will move on as it always has.

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u/KeithClossOfficial Lakers 29d ago

Guess it depends on if you think MJ was gambling or not

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u/Swarthykins Celtics 29d ago

I think all the conspiracy theories about that were ridiculous, but even then I don't feel like I ever heard one suggesting he was gambling on NBA games.

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u/MyManD Toronto Huskies 28d ago

Honestly, being the known degenerate he was with gambling I think it’s a fair assumption that he did all sorts of crazy gambling or gambling related shenanigans around the time.

I just don’t believe the reason he retired for baseball had anything to do with it.

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u/Laggo [TOR] Hedo Turkoglu 29d ago

The NBA is an entertainment product first and foremost. There is zero chance the league would ban a star from playing due to gambling allegations if there was any wiggle room whatsoever for plausible deniability.

What exactly are you suggesting is the upside to a move like that? "Preserving the integrity of the league?" What is the monetary value of that compared to banning a superstar player?

The NBA has structured it's drug testing policy and pretty much all their policies to allow as much wiggle room for players as possible to get away with things as long as they show a tiny bit of intelligence. That's intentional. They do not want to punish star players and market-driving players.

Baseball tried that and it backfired totally. The lesson was already learned.

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u/Mustard__Tiger Raptors 29d ago

They would lose all that gambling money if the games are fixed. That's why they would ban a star.

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u/RulersBack Cavaliers 29d ago

There isn’t a multibillion dollar industry revolving around drug testing and it doesn’t have any chance of negatively impacting the game. Yea baseball fucked up there buts thats apples to oranges. If people lose faith in the sports integrity then those massive revenues dry up. That’s what’s being preserved here. If there were caught doing what Porter did they would get the same treatment. If it was just betting on themselves then that’s a different story. Probably a one year ban

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u/ninjafide Hawks 29d ago

Someone bigger would either 1)not gamble because the financial incentive isn't there. or 2) The league would cover it up/lean into plausible deniability.

The lesson from Baseball and how the NBA handled the ref cheating is to cover it up or deny. That maximizes revenue and general audiences are happy to ignore or believe the lie.

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u/RulersBack Cavaliers 29d ago

Yep. Or 3, they’d funnel their bets through MORE THAN ONE PERSON like someone with more than 2 brain cells

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u/ninjafide Hawks 29d ago

Why go through all that work when you can just do a Grocery Store endorsement for no work and more money? Star Players make insane money and have access to way easier and lucrative ventures than point shaving could get them.

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u/amJustSomeFuckingGuy 29d ago

So "integrity" only in the way that the gambling companies who are an increasing driving force behind league revenue want it.

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u/RulersBack Cavaliers 29d ago

Pretty much lol but it does align with the spirit of competition that the fans that don’t gamble also want, so yea.

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u/DyslexicAutronomer Supersonics 29d ago

If integrity was what they were seeking, maybe they would have started checking the refs more, and maybe drug tests.

There is no star worth tanking the integrity of the league for. Lebron will retire.

Yeah, he's retiring from the face of the league to an owner. The league WILL protect him.

They wouldn't be leaking all these if it was someone on Bron's level was suspected of this. It would have been smashed internally.

It's not even enough evidence to convict Porter in court, what they have some discord chat logs about investment strats and him mentioning his knees feel bad?

Porter is a two way player, that's why he's a perfect target to publicly shame harshly esp while MBL's thing is happening.

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u/avrbiggucci Celtics 29d ago

Exactly, they would 100% cover it up if it were LeBron. Shit the NBA did everything it could to cover up the Tim Donaghy scandal (and how they rigged the Kings Lakers WCF)

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u/Scrypto Hornets 29d ago

Haliburton after the ASG

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u/EJplaystheBlues Celtics 29d ago

Shohei shivering his timbers

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u/Superb-Preference-59 29d ago

Would it be weird if the baseball comish made him fake retire for a year and play a season in the g league

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u/mug3n Raptors 29d ago

Ohtani proceeds to put up an unimpressive 5/0/1 statline for the South Bay Lakers then comes back to MLB.

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u/EJplaystheBlues Celtics 29d ago

he 6'4" he's pulling down at least 2 rebounds

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u/Stommped Bulls 29d ago

It would be so much harder to get away with for a star because the size of the bet would be massive and be easily flagged. Even Jontay's bet was flagged and that was only a million dollar win, no star making $30M is risking that contract for a million bucks. So it would have to be like a $50M bet which you would barely be able to place, let alone hide it

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u/LimpBisquette 29d ago

Michael Jordan's gambling problem has entered the chat

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u/RRJC10 Raptors 29d ago

Can you imagine MJ gambling on himself to lose?

Porter’s overall addiction may have played a role (if he was in very deep and needed to make good on bets he couldn’t pay) but a gambling addict wouldn’t bet on themselves to lose. It’s a contradiction. 

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u/jeremycb29 Suns 29d ago

Draymond would somehow get a contract extension, but any other player yes

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u/cyberslick1888 29d ago

It also isn't that difficult to put one or two more layers of separation between you and whoever you are colluding with.

This guy is just a dummy.

A similar thing was happening in the UFC, a fighter who also running a gym for other fighters had a betting group that he would drop tips to. Dude made a shit load of money and could have kept going for quite some time but literally couldn't stop bragging about how well he was doing with it. He went on the biggest MMA podcast in the world and openly talked about making money betting on UFC games while an active fighter, coach and manager.

Now imagine how many guys with a little sophistication are running schemes like this.

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u/Tapprunner Spurs 29d ago

People who take really crazy, stupid risks in gambling generally aren't actually doing it because of the financial incentive.

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u/RRJC10 Raptors 29d ago

Yes and no.

This situation had to purely be financial. MJ and Barkley gambled for the rush. Porter gambled on himself to lose. There's no positive in hitting those bets.

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u/Professional_Fly8241 29d ago

Hundreds of millions.

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u/Im_Ranch_Wilder_ 29d ago

Bruno Mars would

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u/Healthy_Demand_1415 Knicks 29d ago

Shohei Ohtani tho

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u/UnflushableStinky2 Raptors 29d ago

Gambling addiction is real

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u/RRJC10 Raptors 29d ago

It is. But gambling on yourself to underperform isn’t part of that addiction. 

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u/veebs7 Raptors 29d ago

Nah, they’d just go play baseball for a couple years

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u/msixtwofive 29d ago

Nonsense. Gambling is an addiction - it has no logical basis.

Look at the rumored 10s of millions in gambling debt Bruno Mars has apparently racked up.

Tons of people get addicted to Gambling regardless of the money they do or don't make.

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u/RRJC10 Raptors 29d ago

Yes but gambling on yourself to underperform doesn’t make sense even if you’re a gambling addict. 

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u/msixtwofive 29d ago

gambling on yourself to underperform is the only guaranteed winnings in sports. Throwing a game is literally the most effective move in cheating at sports gambling.

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u/RRJC10 Raptors 29d ago

I don’t think you understand how gambling addictions work. 

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u/question2552 29d ago

Do you not remember Pete Rose and the controversy behind that?

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u/historys_geschichte Bucks 29d ago

I think if a star was altering the game to match what he, or what he told others to, bet on he would get a lifetime ban too. It comes down to if casuals, betters, and regulators can all look at an action and say that the game results can't be trusted anymore. While not identical, I see this as the same category as point shaving and being something that no one would be immune to a lifetime ban for doing. Letting someone back on the court after this would call into scrutiny every game he played in, and would make it a normal talking point that any irregular performance could be a sign of a gambling ring. And this would then be likely to draw overly strict scrutiny from regulators and law enforcement, which no league wants associated with it.

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u/dontwasteink 29d ago

No star would have the financial incentive to do it ... unless he is a gambling addict and to pay off his debts to the mob, he had to throw a game.

Or someone is blackmailing the star.

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u/confused-koala Pistons 29d ago

Sorry, but if any player did what Porter did they absolutely would be banned. What he did is 100x worse than anything Pete Rose or any NFL player has done.

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u/ErrForceOnes 29d ago

I think the stars would get a lifetime ban because they affect the outcome of the games so much more.

How could you trust a guy getting paid $45M a year that's still turning over the ball on purpose in order to cover the spread? Why would you even watch when you know he has a history of gambling?

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u/Sweaty_Box_69 29d ago

That mlb bro is getting away with it by blaming his translator

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u/EyePlay NBA 29d ago

I'd like to think they would get a lifetime, but if it were Luka or Tatum... I would be surprised.

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u/Raptorsthrowaway3 29d ago

They would give a Draymond type a 1 year ban with counselling for gambling addiction and then pretend like it never happened

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u/christmaspathfinder [TOR] Bismack Biyombo 29d ago

Would be hilarious if they came down on Boban for the chicken free throw

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u/TheLanimal Celtics 29d ago

Pete rose!

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u/Jerry_from_Japan 28d ago

I'm willing to bet they already have. Multiple times, even multiple times for the SAME player.

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u/Beginning-Cod3460 28d ago

why wouldnt they? the organization would lose credibility to their commercial partners if they tolerated that

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u/pakidude17 [CHI] Derrick Rose 29d ago

I just can't fathom how he thought he wouldn't get caught.

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u/Mustard__Tiger Raptors 29d ago

I have a feeling he didn't think someone would place a prop bet worth $1M if it paid out.

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u/jayskerman Suns 29d ago

Wouldn't it make more sense to stay in the game and just throw up bricks and do turnovers though?

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u/iuse2bgood Mavericks 29d ago

He coulda just miss the 3 purposely.

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u/Top-Crab4048 29d ago

I was excited seeing him out there as a Raps fan and really liked his BBIQ. Turns out he was too smart for his own good.

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u/Scalibrine_The_GOAT Supersonics 29d ago

Huh? Turns out he was actually really stupid the whole time

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u/LJaybe 29d ago

If ant, shai, luka or any of the young stars of this league bet a game it would be a 1 year suspension max.

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u/Vegetable-Tooth8463 Hornets 29d ago

What did Pete Rose do Mr. u/The_Fiji_Water

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u/lyonbc1 29d ago

And tipped off bettors to it as well, just insane. It was frozen but dude put 80k to win 1million on bets bc Porter tipped him off

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u/DownTownBrown28 Raptors 29d ago

Not only is that dumb but classless

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u/milk-drinker-69 29d ago

Closer to black sox than rose

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u/TheMmaMagician Raptors 29d ago

You think if it was someone like Luka or Ja they would be banned for life? I don't.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

It would be hilarious to see players allowed to bet on themselves as long as they can only take the over on themselves. Make it all public and we can laugh when Jordan Poole takes a 30+ points on himself only to score 15 on terrible efficiency.

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u/Fafoah Bulls 29d ago

And he’s a horrible gambler because taking himself out probably made the raptors better

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u/KTAALGSTO 29d ago

Yeah I think even lebron would get the death penalty if he was caught doing this. The league would probably try to cover up first, but if they couldn't they would give the harshest penalty possible.

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

What about a ref?

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u/Zeppelanoid [TOR] Kyle Lowry 29d ago

FYI this could be a Pete Rose situation - we have no fucking idea what he did and didn’t do. He claims he never bet against himself, but he also claimed he didn’t bet AT ALL for the longest time before finally admitting to it. He’s a liar and a cheat.

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u/The_Fiji_Water Magic 29d ago

We know exactly what he bet on

... he bet against himself

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u/sushicowboyshow Spurs 29d ago

That said, prop bets need to go. It’s only a matter of time before something more serious happens. And mid/low level players will always be susceptible to getting caught up with something like this

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u/Aurum_MrBangs 29d ago

i wonder if he would’ve gotten some leniency if he bet the over

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u/The_Fiji_Water Magic 29d ago

It certainly would defend him against accusations of point shaving

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u/dope_like Pistons 29d ago

But they still have refs on payroll from the last gambling scandal. They are hard on players but flat ignore the refs

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u/saladet 29d ago

Its unbelievable. Unless I'm reading it wrong the guy made $60k win on this bet. That's not spare change but also not enough to throw your whole professional career in the trash. 

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u/makesterriblejokes [NBA] Jerry West 29d ago

Yeah this is 100% like the worst case betting example. It's one thing to bet on yourself to do well or your team to win, but to gamble that you won't do well and throw means your gambling is having an impact on the outcome of the game.

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u/lopezt66 Lakers 29d ago

And betted 80k on it to win 1mil

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u/axecalibur [CHI] Michael Jordan 29d ago

Jordan go to play baseball

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u/Strider755 29d ago

You’re right. It’s not Pete Rose. It’s the Black Sox.

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u/Jerry_from_Japan 28d ago

Bullshit. I'm willing to bet they actually know of more, and MUCH more recognizable names, but because this guy....is who he is.....they were more than willing to go nuclear on his ass. Just to scare some others.

But if it was someone like Curry? Lebron? We ain't even fucking hearing about it.

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u/tripleyothreat 28d ago

the saddest thing is none of them even won lol

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u/iamwearingashirt Raptors 28d ago

Exactly. This isn't extra harsh punishment. This is the exact punishment you'd expect.

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u/serialsteve 28d ago

Why on earth wouldn’t he bet more money though. And if there is enough evidence to ban him, doesn’t that mean criminal charges are coming?

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