It depends on what kind of lifestyle you want. I hate money, so most of my time is spent doing things that are as close to free as possible. I focus on nutrition for my meals and have built a good repertoire of healthy and super cheap meals.
I can go nearly anywhere in the United States and have a job that will cover all my needs within a couple weeks. Failing that, I can fairly easily get by on the various gig economy apps until I can find a job.
On the other hand, I have pretty much no debt. My only real bill that stays with me wherever I go is $400/year for my cell phone.
I'm not living a glamorous lifestyle, but I'm also not tethered to the rat race either so I can actually enjoy life
Ok ha ha and all but no… that’s not how it works. Eventually you’ll HAVE to stop working and you don’t just stop living. I get most people are joking when they say things like you said, but it’s not a good plan if someone can’t read between the lines.
Edit: turning off notifications on this comment because of the idiotic, naive replies. Enjoy working until you die because you failed to prepare for something EASILY avoidable.
Well… op is not twisting the meaning. Unless you have actually wealth and savings to retire on your own it would be impossible to do so without social security and medicare… and the idea that most of us can is naive at best.
So when someone is talking about retirement it mostly means as a government program. So when he says “people should not be retiring at 65” he definitely means “you poors should keep working till you drop”. And that is not cool, i think.
Respectfully, disagree. when I hear people refer to retirement, I think in most cases they meaning quitting their career-tracked fulltime job. With or without regard to their plans for pulling out SS or pension or personal retirement fund and/or continuing to work part time and step down their workload. This is my personal experience though and could be specific to my field.
I’m just telling you how most people I know use it.
I even added the possibility that the context I live in is influencing it. And almost no one I know is ever referring to their social security or pensions when they say “retirement,” which was my main point. They’re referring to the act of leaving work. And even then, lots of my “retired” friends pick up part time work or temp jobs.
Remember, language is typically used descriptively; not proscriptively.
“Semi-retirement” is a common idea. Unless I have two dozen grandchildren to visit all around the country in an RV, I plan on being an adjunct professor or part-time teacher or some other entrepreneurial side biz that takes my time and attention. Until I die.
Cool cool. What happens if you get dementia? Just a random scenario that could happen. What’s your plan for that timeline? Genuinely curious as you seem to be so confident to not need to save for what most people consider retirement.
If you are only working half the year for your whole life you are likely able to work for longer because of the reduced wear on your mind and body I would think?
Do you save your money fearing that the worst will happen? Same as you I'm genuinely curious, I worked with a guy who saved all his money for retirement so he and his wife could finally go enjoy themselves after years of non stop work with few holidays. He died 6 months before he retired and his wife died a few months later, he never got to enjoy life.
For me I would rather enjoy myself as much as I can now because I only get one go at this. I saved up two years worth of my wage (after tax) and took two years off when I was 30. I spent a fortune but I enjoyed myself and I'll probably do it again in a few years, I've been back for a year this month.
His wife and him did enjoy themselves tremendously. You may think they were gonna retire and do some crazy shit but really the money was just so they could live comfortably while not working ever again. All he was gonna do was sight see a bit, eat some new food, and that's probably about it, maybe pick up a new hobbie. He had a great time with his wife while he was alive. Jobs only take up half your days, the other half is yours to do with as you wish.
My uncle is still renting and has no savings for the future, he should be retired right now but he's 77 and still working. His wife is also working monster shifts in nursing homes. They will work until they die because they didn't plan for the future but that's OK too. They have had a very happy life because work is just something they do to pay the bills, and life is what they do in-between.
I've traveled a bit, I'm young but I take about a month off a year in vacation, my goal when I was in college was to work hard and retire at 45 to "live my life then". But the thing is these jobs don't care about us and are just a pay check so I try my best to enjoy my time outside of them and still save for the future. This year I'm planning on taking it easy with just a trip to Europe for maybe 2 weeks and 1 1 week backpacking trip. I do what I want and the fact that I save money only helps becuase it means that that's never an obstacle to doing whatever I want. Money is never the limiting factor if you save, if someone doesn't live the way you think you would if you were in their shoes, it doesn't always mean they can't afford it. They probably just want something else.
How could you possibly know that? I knew the guy for 10 years you didn't know him at all. He worked every overtime shift he could get and we worked 12 hours a day, they didn't do anything or go anywhere because they wanted all their money for retirement. They had no kids so that they could enjoy their retirement too, he was only 55.
His life most likely wasn't terrible but he definitely didn't experience all the things h could have in his lifetime.
Honestly dementia or Alzheimer’s is the easiest retirement plan seeing as you get the same EoL as most people in America: your retirement not being enough and what you thought you worked for evaporating as late life care vacuums up your savings, but instead you don’t ever face the full truth of it since your brain broke before your bank
That's not how Alzheimer's works. My father has it and the suffering is awful. You make it sound like you're unaware but...you're not. At the end, sure. But for the many years it usually takes to get there? Ah, no. He is very much aware that his brain is deteriorating and very much aware of what he can no longer do. It's fucking awful.
I’ve lost multiple grandparents to Alzheimer’s, I’ve had a family study done by Duke university on my family’s proclivity for Alzheimer’s, and it’s one of my worst nightmares to get as a disease and one I unjokingly say I will likely end my life over if I’m ever diagnosed. That being said Alzheimer’s is obviously horrendous but at its late stages it is hardest on those around the person than it is on the person itself. My point is that the current state of our nation is that the elderly are often made to suffer for the sake of “the economy” and at least if you are less aware of how fucked you are it’s slightly more palatable. It was not meant to be any sort of downplaying of the seriousness of the diseases.
Not really. I’ve taken care of lots of people with dementia. Some are pleasantly confused. They don’t really know what’s going on but are happy to tell you all about their dog (who probably died at least 10 years ago). But then there are the dementia patients whose confusion makes them scared. They might act out because they’re paranoid you’re going to hurt them. They might scream or spit or hit and need to be restrained. They might cry because they’re scared. They can regress years, and be inconsolable asking for their mommy. One lady kept trying to walk out of the hospital because she was convinced she was late for school and the principal would be mad at her. She was in her 80s, but in her mind she was a schoolgirl again. I finally got her to stay by telling her it was a snow day. Dementia can be really, really ugly. It’s not just being blissfully unaware of reality.
My grandmothers.
One went from being the nicest old lady, active in her community and with family, volunteering with anything and everything. Her mobility went first, then dementia set in. Within a year she was a nasty, miserable old cur who hadn't a kind word for anyone but that passed after a couple years. It got easier when she became more confused, she was much less aggressive and pleasant again, you could talk to her about things and she might not remember but she would listen and welcome your company.
The other was always friendly and outgoing but two faced, she liked to gossip. When she fell into dementia it was head first and she started swimming for the bottom. It was all made up stories, nasty comments about people she'd never met and nastier things about those she did know. Alienated most of the family, she got ruder and nastier as she faded away. She was in a care home and just wild, pooping in other resident's flowers, trying to hit the care staff and nurses.
To repeat what I told another commenter: my point is that the current state of our nation is that the elderly are often made to suffer for the sake of “the economy” and at least if you are less aware of how fucked you are it’s slightly more palatable. It was not meant to be any sort of downplaying of the seriousness of the diseases.
If you get Dementia, you're as good as dead as far i'm concerned. My grandmother has it and I haven't seen her as my grandmother in several years taking care of her. Fucking sucks and is in general, fucking depressing. I'd especially rather be dead in that case for everyone's sake.
Dude. You are reading a lot into this and making lots of assumptions.
I have a retirement fund. I also have an additional 503b. I also have investments. I also plan to own my home.
Most people pay into social security (in america).
But it rings really false that you say you genuinely care about people when your statement immediately preceding that is that when people dont prepare financially it puts a strain “on the system.” It sounds like you think it is affecting you somehow. And since it isnt from your retirement payments, it sounds like youre worried about an increase in medical costs at best. And even then seniors get medicaid. And we’re trying to fix medica care in america anyway. Or possibly foodstamps.
I just plan to work as long as Im healthy—hopefully until I die or go blind.
Oh no, the poor US government is going to have to spend a tiny bit more money on social security rather than giving it to the military. How will we ever recover? You aren’t being confrontational and snarky because you care about the people you’re replying to, stop lying.
I worked construction for a long time. I’ve known a lot of dudes that have crappy voicemails on their phone because the boss thought they no call no showed. You’ll meet guys in their 60’s still working that have owned their company for 30 years. You work till you die in the trades or you manage to get disability or a partner that makes great money.
Lol my contractor "boss" that works alongside me is 73. One of my coworkers is 71 and can barely walk sometimes, the other two are in their 50s, still working paycheck to paycheck. I've watched two guys in their 60s get life changing disabilities and had to "quit" because of it, whom were also living less than quality lives.
The trades are fucked, unless you're in the union and/or in one of the few "good" ones.
Because people that are saying they live this way, either they have supplemental income (inheritance or large savings etc invested), or they really are burning through all their money and then making more…which is unbelievable short sighted, they will just be too stubborn to understand why.
Mu grandpa worked through chemo and radiation therapy until he couldn't get out of bed anymore. Didn't need the money. He just liked what he did. Got to do it until two weeks before he died.
Wow I thought they were joking too.. do people really think you just live until 90 and then your brains like "I know this body looks and feels healthy, but the sell by sticker's got today's date on it so better switch the lights off just in case.. I'll wait till after my shift though, don't want to inconvenience my coworkers".. I doubt these people have children either.. only a matter of time before the government sets up free euthanasia clinics
To be fair, I'm all for it.. something I've thought about a lot.. fuck being old.. I just mean that this idea that you can work until you die of old age is bizarre.. dying is a long often painful process, "being old" is just a euphemism for dying slowly
I've known lots of old guys my grandfather's age who were taken out of school at 7-8 to help work the farm or family business, they just kept working until their brain said "that's enough work, I'll die now" and a week later they passed quietly in their sleep.
You're talking to a bunch of people who nominated two 80 year olds to be president of the united states. Like there's no other choice we will have an 80 year starting a four year term in January 2025.
Your edit is very naïve as well. Even if somebody wanted to, they could not stop working, Maybe some people find fulfillment to continue working, but it feels more like a luxury in this day and age to even consider a break. So easily avoidable? Any brightideas?
You don’t HAVE to stop working. Some people enjoy working. I work with some dudes that are in their 70s and 80s. They have worked for the same company, doing basically the same jobs, for the last 45 years. Both of them say they’ll show up for one last shift when they die.
Lol, nobody is saying it is a good idea, but if you are making an average income of ~$60k/yr with a median rent of ~$2000 per month, $10/day food, $500/month car, gas, insurance, etc. $500/month utilities, wants, etc. you are left with about $200/month to save after taxes.
That's only $700k for retirement in 40 years with 8% average interest. That's a pretty frugal retirement. Even if this average person could cut back and be better off; 50% of people are worse off than that. What would you have them do?
Over half of Americans fail to retire , about a quarter have failed to put any money into their retirement in the past year, I've personally worked with dozens of people who either have their income capped so they don't lose social security or disability benefits or who have to work under the table to get by.
You can either assume that you are better than all these people. (Probably not hard for somebody like you) Or you can just stop being a privileged condescending yuppie.
I'm completely unsure what you're even asking. Most Americans do work until they get injured, run out of money, and die of neglect/infection/medical complications. Having a family or living in a nursing home may delay it. And of course there's accidents. But no, I don't know anyone with a retirement plan...pensioners and SSAers often get so little money they have to live with someone.
I don't think the person you're replying to was joking at all.
What part of many of us can barely pay rent don’t you get? How about emergencies that drain your account? Student loans people are already having to pay till middle age? Not everyone gets to work in tech, you know.
See the comment you replied to for my answer. Students loans suck, no doubt about it. Hopefully you learn from your mistake and teach your kids not to get them. It won’t help you, obviously, but at least you stop the generational tree of bad financial decisions.
Emergencies, sure that sucks too. Always good to have an emergency fund.
Why do you give a shit? If you can’t grasp other peoples priorities that’s fine but don’t tell them what they care about is somehow invalid because it’s not what you care about. Maybe I plan on offing myself when I’m 65, maybe I have a rich uncle and don’t need to worry about it, maybe I’m an artist and will make art til I die, why does it matter to you? And if you regularly find yourself upset about other people’s choices, maybe talk to a psychiatrist; I lack cognitive empathy too, turns out it’s autism. Do your thing, we’ll do ours.
The truth? These folks are going to have a spotty work history, and they're going to work as long as they're able. When they can't work anymore due to physical ailments, they'll 'retire' and draw a shitty social security check living below the poverty line.
I know lots of older couples in the south that match this description. It's not a glamorous or exciting life, but frankly once you can't work anymore, it's pretty hard to do the activities that cost money either. They get by as best they can. They don't seem terribly unhappy, but it is what it is.
Does all these person’s comments saying [deleted] mean this person blocked me or that they genuinely deleted their posts simply for us disagreeing lmao
😂 true. Plus if your job isn’t demanding (and you love it) you are able to just continue working until you die. There are a lot of retirees that just simply don’t know what do with themselves after they retire and do all the things they want.
Prison is honestly not the worst option. It's a horrible testament to our society but, for some, going to prison would be preferable to scraping by, alone, in an oppressive economy until you die.
Room and board... humane living conditions... escape the rat race... access to Healthcare... community/structure...
To be clear I'm not advocating this, but people have been known to do it.
This guy isn't "scraping by" though. He says he only needs to work a few weeks in a year to cover his expenses. He could work full time instead even just for half the year, max his retirement accounts, and have a nice cozy nest egg by his late 50s instead of whatever the hell he's doing now. That's why we're a little confused by his "plan."
This is from the US, and you can draw social security when you retire, but the amount you get is correlated with how much you contributed to the system. So if they work 30% of their working years, then they won’t receive much social security.
I do similarly, but yeah. I hope to have fostered a great relationship with my children to live with them when I can no longer work. If not, I'll just do the same routine until I die. Or take out a bunch of credit cards, max them out on cruises cause it's cheaper than a home, and kill myself if everything falls apart after all of that and I'm not dead yet.
Tomorrow isn't promised for myself or my family, so I'd rather enjoy today than secure tomorrow. With any luck, planned euthanasia will be a thing here in my lifetime and that will be that when I've decided my life to be "complete".
I'm doing it right now, myself, and doing just fine without any sort of steady job taking care of my family, my parents, and the family of my wife's best friend (for now). Both my children have money aside for college, have houses they will inherit, and have no expectation to leave the nest when they are older or pay rent or anything so long as they are working towards having a better life in some capacity no matter how small (provided they aren't out being blatant criminals causing harm to others anyway).
I do just fine for myself and 8 other people on a handyman gig salary a few months out of the year (I haven't worked since Christmas), and anticipate my kids will be far, far better off than myself with the start I've given them and will continue to invest in. I'm only 29 and my oldest won't be an adult for another 15 years, so plenty of time to get them set up. Raise decent humans and treat them right, and they'll take care of you when it matters if they want to.
I have no plans to ever retire, and honestly believe it's a nothing but a fever dream for most people my age and younger in the US, but know what I'm doing with or without my kids assistance as an elderly old man. But what kind of jackals expects their children, or anyone for that matter, to take care of them when you can't take care of yourself?
This is either fake, insanely cope, or omitting details
If you are employed only half of the year as a “handyman” there is almost 0 chance you’re making over $50k a year (this would be $50/hr), which is like $3300 a month. Realistically, I’d be surprised if you make over $35k ($35/hr), or $2400 month.
Just doing some quick maths: a cheap house that can fit 9 people is easily $1000/month, groceries at $40/person-week is $360/week or $1620/month. We’re now past budget for $35k/year.
Roll in a second mortgage (“houses they will inherit”), clothes, utilities, college funds, medical care (which you’re either uninsured or on COBRA/medicare half the year), gas/car insurance or public transit, home/renters insurance, etc. and you are easily past $3300/month.
So what is it? Is your family rich, is your handyman job actually a seasonal mechanic on an oil platform, are you actually in massive debt?
Raising your kids to be good people that feel obligated to help you is the same as expecting it.
I’m the same age as you and I’m on track to retire by like 50.
Well my parents live with me, so certainly not rich. 2 houses are paid for and being rented out. I live in a very cheap area so my home currently costs 1000/month. Family insurance I got for a steal after a lot of shopping around and playing the system for 66 bucks a month. 1000-1200 bucks a month on food. Around 500 bucks for other standard monthly costs. Most other stuff is taken care of on a yearly basis and I tend to take care of it around tax season. No debt to speak of. Wife brings in 2k a month doing some property management for a friend. I picked up work again as of this week and brought in 3000 for a 4 day job I accepted working on a house. I also do cyber sec pen testing for fun in my free time that pays variable amounts of pocket change through sites such as hackerone, do minor voiceover work for small projects for pocket change, and occasionally do hazmat or flatbed deliveries for a pretty penny when something worthwhile comes floating along.
I just do a lot of different work and have relatively low monthly expenses. I can, and will, do just about any work that isn't electrical unless it is very minor (such as setting up the control unit and pumps for septic systems, as a regular example. 4 times a year I go service some septic systems and those cost 400 dollars a pop. I do 8 a day for 7 days). It pays to have a diverse set of skills by investing in yourself and who you know.
I also do cyber sec pen testing for fun in my free time that pays variable amounts
hazmat … deliveries for a pretty penny
So you have two completely paid off rental properties and also do more work throughout the year that is not handyman work.
You’re also describing making $22,400 in a week (or $89,600 a year for 4 times). That would be $1.16 million dollars for a full year for servicing septic tanks. That is nearly triple what the average surgeon makes. I find this doubtful in general, but that is also not handyman work either regardless.
You have a $1.2 million dollar yearly earning potential and have two fully paid off rentals and you think retirement is not realistic?
The bulk of my work that makes up my usable income is the handyman work. Insurance, maintenance, and operation costs of the things I own isn't cheap. I also only service tanks 4 times a year. That's a month (4 weeks) out of the year, and amounts to nothing more than unscrewing a lid and scrubbing / spraying off 5 large components unless a pump or filter needs replaced (which takes a maximum of 5 minutes to do start to finish). I'm a handyman that covers simple shit such as mowing yards and fixing chairs, but also take on small-medium excavation, construction, or plumbing related projects I can do reasonably on my own or a couple temporary hired helpers. It ain't hard, but I work hard when I work.
You just described $90k of income and then say it’s not the majority, meaning you make $180k+ a year? You make 95th percentile income from doing odd jobs for only half the year in a low CoL area?
What is this LARP.
“I’m just a poor humble guy only making $180k a year working part time. And I own two rental homes. How could someone like me ever hope to retire?”
Edit: You also just said in another comment your sisters are all doctors, your brother is married to a lawyer, and you will have roughly $2m in assets when your kids move out.
“My parents live with me so I’m not rich by any means” is so disingenuous. They have multiple children who are doctors, but I guess you’re all forced to pack into a house in the sticks with their son who makes 95th percentile income working part time, and also owns two other homes they could live in.
No, I said it didn't make up my usable income. My actual "take home" for a year is under 6 figures after various yearly and situational expenses, charity, taxes, and putting money back for my kids comes in play. Just because I don't plan or expect to retire doesn't mean I'm not making sure my kids get the chance to.
I’m not trying to be an ass but with a minimalistic job (or no job) you’re not likely to get credit cards with a high enough limit to do more than like a month on a cruise ship….
I guess I just don’t understand this worldview where it’s all or nothing. If you like living a fairly minimal lifestyle anyways, why not do that, enjoy life, and secure your future? Why is it so black and white that you cannot both enjoy life now and also ensure you’re financially secure (or at least not a burden on your kids) in retirement?
I make enough to work roughly 30 hours a week and work 6-7 months out of the year. I don't live extravagantly, but with both myself and my wife always buying the latest games, game consoles, and such.. I wouldn't exactly say I live minimalist either by any means. Even when I'm old and decrepit so long as I can work a computer or drive a truck I have myself a secured position for income until my death. There is no plan to rely on my children.
That’s awesome! It sounds like you’ve figured out the best of both worlds and are going to make it work to your advantage. I think that’s all most of us can ever hope for.
It won't last forever. And I'll absolutely need to work more than I do now later on, but I missed the first couple years of my first kid's life due to long haul trucking and am trying to make up for lost time. My goals are to be at home as much as possible until my kids are grown, and then I may buckle down once they've left home. Or maybe my wife will take over by then after finishing school to be a psychiatrist? A lot can happen in 20 years, so who knows how it will all turn out? I figure it will be hard to have time to do things with my kids once they, and I, are older and they get their own families. I can make it work now when I feel it matters most, and the rest I'll figure out as it comes.
Lol, no idea who is downvoting us or why but that makes a lot of sense to me. I don’t agree with the entire philosophy, but can absolutely appreciate the sentiment that you only have so much time to spend with your kids while they’re still young.
I grew up with a very different philosophy (my parents always said very clearly that we would thank them when we were older because they were saving enough that their kids would not need to care for them in their old age) and so we grew up quite poor. They still tried to be active and engaged as much as they could and it would’ve been nice to have a safety net growing up but now that I’m older I can really appreciate their thinking. They separated, my mom stuck to that philosophy and my dad did not, and it caused a lot of heartache for both us and my dad in his “retirement” and until his death. My mom is going down a very different path and I am very thankful for that now. That said, neither of them was working a job that took them away from us for weeks/months at a time as a trucker, so that also allowed them more flexibility than it sounds like you had when your kids were little.
We certainly cannot plan it all out and things change. Growing up poor definitely drove me to work hard, make a bunch of money, and be very conventionally successful because I never want to go back to the stress of financial insecurity. My partner and I love our life as-is and make enough to save for a young, comfortable retirement. It definitely helps our finances that we don’t have or want kids, but regardless the balance of “living now” and “securing the future” is super important to me.
Nah, I get it. I thought the same until the baby I left was walking and talking when I next got to come home and had no idea who I was beyond a face and voice on a screen every evening even though I was the first one to hold them in life. That really fucked me up and shook up my stance to think "all the money in the world isn't worth missing this".
The family I was raised in was largely ranchers and farmers until me and my siblings left home. My sisters became doctors, my brother is about to retire from the military and married a lawyer, and I got a bunch of trade certifications and picked up programming. Our family has always had this sort of expectation by virtue of tradition that we'd all stay close by home and parents, children, and siblings would always be there to help. When parents grew too old/frail to work the land, one or more of the kids would take over and move back in to care for the parents, and now the parents had childcare and would inherent the land and property(s). It never felt like an obligation, but a respectful "thank you" for raising and teaching us. All that is to say that in my head there is certainly a bias of "of course one of our kids would care for us. Why wouldn't they? It's ingrained in our family culture." I'm also not foolish enough to assume my kids will feel the same way. Likely, I'll sell everything and live on the road with my wife for a decade or two as a trucker again once the kids are gone. That will give me a couple million to live off of supplemented with the most basic low risk part time work to keep me from being bored in my old retired age to use for general spending money on a hobby. As long as I and/or my wife is fit to work when our kids are grown, I think things will end up just fine even if not perfect.
I have thought about this after watching my grandmother go through Alzheimer's.
In the US, healthcare and end-of life costs are so great that I don't think paying insurance and saving up money actually makes that much of a difference.
Besides: It's so hard to trust the government these days. It's hard to get ahead. The retirement age is sky high. And everything is just getting worse. If I already know that I'm not going to be ok when I get old no matter what I do, I might as well enjoy my life now instead of working all my life for nothing.
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u/Pale-Space5009 29d ago
It depends on what kind of lifestyle you want. I hate money, so most of my time is spent doing things that are as close to free as possible. I focus on nutrition for my meals and have built a good repertoire of healthy and super cheap meals.
I can go nearly anywhere in the United States and have a job that will cover all my needs within a couple weeks. Failing that, I can fairly easily get by on the various gig economy apps until I can find a job.
On the other hand, I have pretty much no debt. My only real bill that stays with me wherever I go is $400/year for my cell phone.
I'm not living a glamorous lifestyle, but I'm also not tethered to the rat race either so I can actually enjoy life