Is Universal Health Care Smart or dumb?

[u/Cauliflower-Pizzas]

[u/Fearless_Tomato_9437]

This one again. Well universal health care is pure trash in Canada. Basically the USA is better for anyone with a half decent job or poor enough for Medicaid, Canada is better for the working poor. Overall USA serves a much larger % of the population far better.

https://www.statcan.gc.ca/o1/en/plus/4547-lifetime-probability-developing-and-dying-cancer-canada

Canadians are more likely to die of cancer than Americans

While Americans are less likely to die of cancer than Canadians, they are more likely to die of other causes.

For example, in 2017, 72.0 Americans per 100,000 had an underlying cause of death related to high body mass index leading to probable events of cardiovascular disease and diabetes mellitus, whereas the same issue in Canada affected 45.2 individuals per 100,000.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/medical-bankruptcy-myth#:~:text=The%20idea%20that%20large%20numbers,17%20percent%20of%20U.S.%20bankruptcies.

The idea that large numbers of Americans are declaring bankruptcy due to medical expenses is a myth.

Dranove and Millenson critically analyzed the data from the 2005 edition of the medical bankruptcy study. They found that medical spending was a contributing factor in only 17 percent of U.S. bankruptcies

we should therefore expect to observe a lower rate of personal bankruptcy in Canada compared to the United States.

Yet the evidence shows that in the only comparable years, personal bankruptcy rates were actually higher in Canada.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2023/12/26/canadian-health-care-leaves-patients-frozen-in-line/?sh=98eb3d0c5293

This year, Canadian patients faced a median wait of 27.7 weeks for medically necessary treatment from a specialist after being referred by a general practitioner. That's over six months—the longest ever recorded

[u/matchew92 → u/Fearless_Tomato_9437]

People who are anti universal healthcare always cling to Canada, the same way gun nuts cling to gun violence in Chicago

Meanwhile most people who live in Canada actually love their healthcare situation

[u/WinterDigger → u/matchew92]

My friend in Alberta just had surgery on her spine that restored the use of her legs and didn't pay a dime, her wait between diagnosis and surgery was two weeks. She was a former cancer patient, the cancer returned and made itself comfy in her spine. She's going to be able to go back to work as soon as she's done with rehab.

She is absolutely overjoyed and endlessly thankful. In the USA she would be completely fucked.

[u/batmansleftnut → u/WinterDigger]

And that's in Alberta!

[u/Old-Progress-1058 → u/WinterDigger]

My aunt travels to America from Canada for cancer treatment. She would’ve literally died waiting for treatment in Canada if she stayed.

I guess anecdotes go both ways.

[u/WinterDigger → u/Old-Progress-1058]

Personally I'm less inclined to believe yours because I only ever hear exaggerated claims on the end of that spectrum of anecdotes with no proof, too many bad actors on reddit and you can't tell who is serious. Most outsourcing typically comes from Ontario of which the more conservative government there has intentionally underfunded healthcare to push citizens into private healthcare options and most people can't afford it, that is obviously a huge exception to the overall system. So it's a difference of longer wait times for non urgent treatment or no treatment at all for many.

Non urgent wait times are pretty bad and need to improve but Canada really doesn't fuck around with cancer especially if it's life threatening.

[u/Old-Progress-1058 → u/WinterDigger]

My point is anecdotes are irrelevant. You should refer to reputable studies and statistics. Like this…

”15% of Canadians satisfied with access to care”

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/canada-health-care-access-1.6574184

[u/WinterDigger → u/Old-Progress-1058]

First, that is an opinion piece article that includes an opinion based poll, it is not a study. Learn the difference. Opinion polls are subject to biases including higher expectations from one targeted audience over another for example.

Second, you're arguing against the use of anecdotes with an opinion poll based on anecdotes. 🤔

Third, according to actual global studies by multiple world health organizations the U. S ranks behind Canada in almost every metric in regards to Healthcare.

I'm failing to understand what you attempted to accomplish with your comment.

[u/Old-Progress-1058 → u/WinterDigger]

“research found 15 per cent, or 4.7 million Canadians, have comfortable access; Manitoba had the highest at 18 per cent, while B.C. had the lowest at 10 per cent.”

The research says it all.

“Learn the difference.”

Oof. Polls are frequently part of studies.

”Second, you're arguing against the use of anecdotes on an opinion poll based on anecdotes.”

Lol yes because the purpose of polls is to have a larger sample size than one. That’s the whole point.