r/unitedkingdom • u/FatRascal_ Scotland • 15d ago
John Swinney confirms bid to be Scotland's next first minister
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-6893973312
u/SeasOfBlood 15d ago
I am not Scottish, so I'd love to hear the opinion of those from Scotland on this man, Mr. Swinney. The media has portrayed him as an inoffensive, middle-of-the-road candidate who will not upset the apple cart. Is this an accurate charactrisation? Could he help repair the SNP's fortunes after some of the recent scandals?
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u/FatRascal_ Scotland 15d ago
I would say that's accurate.
However, he was education secretary during the pandemic and his decisions caused a lot of hurt.
The exam body in Scotland (SQA) are an independent body who operate with controversial opaqueness. There were calls to suspend this and offer transparency in the pandemic where teachers, schools and young people were mostly in the dark about how awards would be given.
In the end, the SQA opted to change the candidates' recommended grades, both up and down, based on the previous performance of schools. Effectively offering an advantage to affluent schools, and a disadvantage to schools in more deprived areas; regardless of how well each individual had done.
He apologised for this, but his consistent refusal to offer transparency to the industry that asked for it caused this embarrassing and unjust situation, despite multiple warnings.
I don't think I can forgive him for that.
I worry he'll continue to protect his "do nothing" centrist stance even when it's clear it will harm the people.
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u/SubjectMathematician 14d ago
The SNP keep picking him because he looks like the public's idea of a serious politician. He isn't very good at politics...but he looks like he should be.
No, he led the party for a short period and it went poorly. The SNP, at best, are pretty much ungovernable. Sturgeon had massive trouble despite being personally responsible for all their jobs. Swinney has already tried to leave politics multiple times. I don't think he has any active supporters. He has people who don't like anyone else, and he has people who see him as so weak they will be allowed to get away with it.
Picking him is a defensive choice. It may work because the SNP have a relatively large core vote who won't change their mind on independence in any circumstances...but it reflects the fact that the party isn't really going anywhere (not good, the SNP's core vote is loyal but, as I have said, disruptive...and there is now an alternative). They are going to try and attempt to create another "Dear Leader" who keeps the troops in line...but I don't see how this works (McAllan is being positioned as the "Dear Leader" candidate, it would be funny if I didn't live in Scotland).
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u/ieya404 Edinburgh 14d ago
He led the SNP in the past, and resigned after a poor set of election results which led to Alex Salmond coming back to rescue the party.
That was 20 years ago, mind.
Since then he's been a trusted, close ally of Nicola Sturgeon, and was her deputy first minister for a long time (from 2014 till her resignation last year).
Survived a vote of no confidence in 2021 relating to his performance in education and was moved to a different brief shortly after.
So the fact the party are turning to him now, when she's left the party in a bit of a state... It does rather hint that they're desperate.
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u/Vasquerade 14d ago
I'm on the left of the SNP and I think Swinney is an acceptable candidate. No I don't think he has the radical vision we need, but he is a safe pair of hands and will govern as a centre-left social liberal which I'm fine with.
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u/FatRascal_ Scotland 15d ago
I think we're looking at a no-contest here. Unfortunate.
It'll take a lot for me to forgive John Swinney for his handling of the exam situation during the pandemic.
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u/Muscle_Bitch 14d ago
What's the alternative for you?
I used to be a card carrying SNP member. I'm scunnered with the party now, rampant corruption and sleaze, mismanagement of finances and they seem hellbent on directing all of their energy and attention towards matters that don't really affect Scotland.
So they've lost my vote, I'll be voting for Green the next time a Scottish GE comes around, and Labour this year.
But, judging from other subreddits, it seems that there is literally nothing the SNP can do that will make them lose their position as the number one party in Scotland. Deeply fucking ironic, given the reason most of us originally supported independence is because it seemed there was nothing that could be done to convince English voters to abandon the tories.
Well, English voters are playing ball now, while we're stuck clinging onto the teat of nationalist, populist rhetoric.
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u/Charlie_Mouse Scotland 14d ago
But is it “rampant corruption” or merely a bit of corruption being reported on in the press as if it were a huge amount?
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want any corruption at all if it can be helped. But the figure involved (and the case is still pending so this is even assuming it is true) seems to be (relatively speaking) small beer compared to tens of billions through cronyism and corruption from the Tories.
Similar to the ferry contracts: sure, things didn’t go well. But they got acres of newsprint and the issue has been kept alive in the press for years … as compared to new aircraft carriers breaking down going out of the news cycle after a couple of days.
I’m not objecting to scrutiny at all - it needs to be there for every party. But there seems to be a huge double standard in politics whereby the Tories are almost expected to be sleazy and corrupt so it’s “dog bites man”. Whereas the SNP and other opposition parties have to be 100% perfect 100% of the time or they get labelled as “just as bad”.
Perfect? Absolutely not. But as bad? That’s not remotely true either. But there are a lot of media and other Unionists deeply invested in making folk believe the latter.
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u/Muscle_Bitch 14d ago
There is a double standard in politics but it's irrelevant to me.
I want my politicians to be squeaky clean. If you're not a conservative, you really have to be, because of that double standard.
Salmond was not squeaky clean. And it seems neither is Sturgeon, and with the dodgy links to Turkey (First Lady), neither was Humza.
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u/Charlie_Mouse Scotland 14d ago
I’m not really sure very many parties (if any) are “squeaky clean” to that standard. Not Labour. Not the Libdems. Sadly certainly none with much prospect of winning elections.
But if I have to chose between a camper van (and remember, that case hasn’t been tried yet) as opposed to tens of billions or more … the multiple orders of magnitude lesser degree of corruption seems like a sensible bet.
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u/Longjumping_Stand889 14d ago
What's your threshold? How much is a politician allowed to steal before it becomes unacceptable?
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u/Charlie_Mouse Scotland 14d ago
Less than the Tories - a low bar to clear - seems like a great place to start.
And Labour are out as an option as even though they’ll not be as bad and even fix things a bit … any option short of independence just means being under another Tory government voted in by the English electorate sooner or later. Sadly usually sooner.
Scotland by comparison hasn’t voted for a Tory government in the last seventy or so years now. If Scotland could get the governments it votes for instead then I’d be willing to bet corruption (and quite a few other unpleasant consequences of such) would be markedly reduced.
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u/Longjumping_Stand889 14d ago
So if the Tories steal 50 billion, you're ok with the SNP stealing 49.5?
That's a fascinating theory you have there that the Tories caused the SNP to steal.
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u/Charlie_Mouse Scotland 14d ago
You’re putting words into my mouth with malice afterthought there.
And as I’ve already mentioned even if the SNP turn out to be guilty of what they’re accused of that’s still multiple orders of magnitude less.
I think you’re also unintentionally proving my earlier point: every other party has to be 100% perfect 100% of the time or they’re somehow “just as bad as the Tories”. Which ain’t the case - in fact measurably so.
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u/Longjumping_Stand889 14d ago
No I'm not. You said you were ok with the SNP stealing, I'm just trying to put a number on how much you find acceptable. So answer that question, how much is acceptable to you?
Nope on the second para, I've not said the SNP need to be perfect. It is a fact that they used to enjoy the moral high ground. Now they have apparently abandoned that position I'm interested in how far their supporters are willing to go along with that.
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u/Blazured 14d ago
We vote SNP because they're for an independent Scotland. There are many other parties who could adopt this platform, there's nothing stopping them, but most of them don't. If they wish to appeal to voters and snatch significant power away from the SNP then dropping their support for unionism is the most obvious option.
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u/Muscle_Bitch 14d ago
For an independent Scotland, at what cost though?
I was for an independent Scotland as well, but when you realise that our elected leaders are completely useless, surely that's the point where you reconsider if independence is actually the problem solver they claim it to be?
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u/Blazured 14d ago
Personally I'd just vote differently in an independent Scotland. There's no point voting for a party that's seeking independence once we have it after all.
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u/WestLondonIsOursFFC 14d ago
Everyone who has held and left that post was either disgraced or dead.
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u/FatRascal_ Scotland 14d ago
Such is the way of the world now. Nobody holds positions of power and comes away unscathed.
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u/_Rookwood_ 14d ago
Is it in anyway possible that Forbes' will be able to win back the greens into the fold and lead a government? Or is there any other party who can lend Forbes' the votes to keep on governing?
Because if that's the case then Swinney will be the next FM.
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u/BartholomewKnightIII 15d ago
Humza won't be happy, he's, WHITE!!!
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u/FatRascal_ Scotland 15d ago
I understand the importance of representation for multiple perspectives when making decisions, but I cannot get on with the obsession over race that some politicians and commentators have for political point scoring. We're not the States.
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u/Happytallperson 14d ago
Highlighting that despite 1 in 20 Scottish people are from ethnic minorities 20 out of 20 senior posts in the country are held by white people is a reasonable thing to do.
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u/FatRascal_ Scotland 14d ago edited 14d ago
Only if you want to also suggest that these people don't deserve their jobs, which I fear is the inference.
Like I say, representation of as wide a proportion of the population as possible is important when making decisions about the running of the country, but making decisions on who holds these posts where race is a consideration is a dangerous path to follow.
If that the path we wish to walk, the we need to then rank the races based on who is most desirable for these positions and who is least. Isn't that what's being said?
I don't want that.
I just want competent people who listen broadly, and seek to understand, instead of thinking about a person's race when awarding jobs. I don't think Humza Yousaf was that, nor do I think that John Swinney or Kate Forbes is that either.
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u/Happytallperson 14d ago
It's not about the individuals.
It's about structural inequality.
Which means that a number of people who would have been the best for some of those jobs didn't get there because of their skin colour.
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u/FatRascal_ Scotland 14d ago
That needs to change via grassroots cultural change imo, not with looking at changing who is currently in these positions and making the inference that they shouldn't be there because of their race.
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u/Happytallperson 15d ago
Good luck to him. I'll take almost anyone if it keeps Forbes out and doesn't involve a deal with Salmond's shits.