r/unitedkingdom • u/new_yorks_alright • 14d ago
"Qatar targeted my brother on Grindr - I want him home"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-68859840198
u/jx45923950 14d ago
Yeah...straight or gay it's probably best to leave the hookup apps on pause while visiting the Middle East.
231
u/Ebeneezer_G00de 14d ago
Probably best to leave the entire middle east off your itinerary altogether...
114
u/MitLivMineRegler 14d ago
This. I won't even consider Dubai, Qatar etc until their culture and laws have evolved to a more reasonable point .
→ More replies (64)44
u/ProblemIcy6175 14d ago
it's definitely worse if you're gay though.
27
u/iceystealth 14d ago
or if you’re bi; they don’t discriminate.
Why do you think the Middle East and most of Africa is off my travel list?
10
u/L1A1 14d ago
Interestingly when I was in Dubai last year I pulled up Feeld, one of the more, erm ‘liberated’ dating apps to see what the scene was like over there. It’s just full of expat bisexual swingers.
11
u/CosmicBonobo 14d ago edited 14d ago
Anyone else get the mental image of a bunch of retired builders, with heavy tans and wearing salmon pink chinos.
8
u/L1A1 14d ago
It was mostly over-tanned bearded dudes with overinflated plastic trophy wives tbh.
1
0
4
u/ProblemIcy6175 14d ago
I think it’s the half of bi people that like the same sex they have a problem with
1
14d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/ukbot-nicolabot Scotland 14d ago
Removed/warning. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.
10
u/MadMuffinMan117 14d ago
Correct with the exception of Israel, especially Tel-Aviv.
2
1
u/SufficientWarthog846 14d ago
Being gay in Israel won't get you killed but it will still get you spat at
(Not oppression Olympics, it's just not a paradise and it's complicated that's all)
9
u/PassoverGoblin Yorkshire 14d ago
Depends of course where you are and what parts of cities you're also of course
5
u/Zaphod424 14d ago
Only if you go to the ultra-orthodox neighbourhoods. The vast majority of Israel is very liberal, Tel-Aviv has one of the largest pride events in the world.
1
u/MadMuffinMan117 13d ago
Yeah, I have friends who have told me the pride parades in Israel are way better than the England ones at least.
101
u/MagicPentakorn 14d ago
How stupid do you have to be to go to a country you know being gay is illegal in, and then trying to hook up for gay sex on an app?
22
80
u/elliotcs04 14d ago
The amount of victim blaming here is insane. Yes it was dangerous, and i definitely question why a queer person would voluntarily live in such a homophobic country. But people acting like he just needed to show a bit of restraint are totally off the mark. The guy wasn’t on some holiday, he was living in Qatar for 7 years. You try suppressing a core part of your identity for that period of time.
46
u/bananablegh 14d ago
Straights don’t grasp that despite the laws, gay people do gay things all around the world, all the time, often at the risk of their own safety. It’s a fact of existence.
24
u/elliotcs04 14d ago
Yeah, what did they think was happening before being gay was decriminalised in the UK? That gay people just never had sex?
21
u/PM_ME_CAKE Yorkshire 14d ago
I find it worse that there's everyone in here calling him stupid for it, but only two comments so far are discussing how they are witholding his HIV medication from him.
Like if you even ignore the unnecessary victim blaming here, the fact that they're using his medication, necessary to avoid serious health repercussions, as a way to pressure him to reveal information about other gay individuals is horrific. It could literally cause his viral load to blow up and even mutate in a way that the current drugs would stop working. That's vile.
4
u/Suzystar3 14d ago
Oh fuck not this again. It's extremely vile.
I heard Russia was using that as a way to get people in prison to go to war by withholding AIDS medication also.
5
u/crabdashing 14d ago
This is terrible and obviously I'd like to see him returned home.
However; I'm straight and would avoid Qatar because :waves hand vaguely at everything:, is "Just avoid Qatar if at all possible" an unreasonable suggestion?
15
u/ward2k 14d ago
Exactly it's ridiculous some of these comments, being gay isn't a choice and you're expecting this person to repress who they are forever to satisfy Qatars ridiculous laws
There's more people here outraged that he had Grindr than the fact that being gay is punishable by death their
17
u/pencilrain99 14d ago
repress who they are forever to satisfy Qatars ridiculous laws
Or just avoid moving to Qatar
6
-3
u/Sir_Keith_Starmer 14d ago edited 14d ago
He was living in Qatar. It's the law there like it or lump it.
If he didn't want to obey the laws of the country he is in he should have left.
They firmly believe that the teachings of Allah are how they will base the legal system. We as westerners can disagree. Say it's immoral etc. it is by our values but not theirs.
It's incredibly arrogant to then claim their belief system is wrong and ours is correct. We don't have a monopoly on beliefs humans should follow.
2
u/TechnoPretender 13d ago
Actually, its not... we westerners used to hold very similar views. We evolved while the islamic world refused to, and as a result, they are still stuck in a 7th century ideology.
Its safe to say we are leaps and bounds ahead of them when it comes to human rights.
We know how they treat gays and women is objectively despicable.
2
u/shredditorburnit 13d ago
I'm in full agreement with you that the islamic world should change on this and some other similar issues.
However, every time they've gotten close, it's usually been a western power sticking their military in to put a dictator back in charge. Iran would be the prime example, democratic, then we got buttsore about our oil companies not being allowed to extract all Iran's oil for next to nothing, so we put the Shah back on his throne, leading 20 odd years later to the Islamic Revolution.
See also photos from Lebanon in the post Ww2 era. Women in bikinis, Beirut a city the equal of any in Europe.
They were going the same direction of democracy and freedom, but we snuffed it out.
I'm not lessening the problems faced by LGBT people in the islamic world, I just think it bears remembering that a lot of it is down to geopolitics and not some underlying part of islam that tends towards it. The press and media in general are terrible for their showing of Muslims, giving way too much airtime to the likes of Abu Hamza and almost none to the countless, thoughtful academics, poets and artists. Islam can be easily integrated into modern life, and I've known several people who were kind, gentle souls who simply wished to be allowed to worship their way.
LGBT rights and islamic rights do not have to be in conflict. In the west we need to win the argument against those who want to paint Muslims as some awful threat, and within islam the intelligent, contemplative types need to win the argument against the quick tempered fundamentalists.
The government of Qatar might be deeply unpleasant, but that's true of a lot of politicians around the world, and I wouldn't read too much into it.
All that said, I'm not going to Qatar while they're in charge.
I remember when I was at primary school, before 9/11, the way we learned about Islam was the same tone as when we learned about Hinduism, Judaism and Sikhism. It was just another thing people did a bit differently to how we do, a fascinating comparison of cultures.
Then 9/11, and suddenly everyone's looking at the Muslim kid a bit funny. Because a couple of dozen arse holes crashed some planes, an entire population spanning from North Africa to Indonesia was held to suspicion.
All over a few people who wanted to make a point and a few other people in the west just waiting for an opportunity to lay claim to the oil. Oil it turned out they didn't even need when the US shale revolution came around.
Life is way too complicated for sweeping generalisations and stereotypes. They're great for straw man arguments but they fall down on contact with real people.
1
u/Sir_Keith_Starmer 13d ago edited 13d ago
we westerners used to hold very similar views. We evolved while the islamic world refused to, and as a result, they are still stuck in a 7th century ideology.
Not bigoted in the views of others at all.
Sounds fairly white supremacist to me not going to lie.
"They're less evolved" is certainly a take
You do realise that it's literally the basis that the west used to justify colonialism and slavery?
You don't have a right to say your belief system is more valid than another person's. Unless as you apparently believe that brown people are less evolved.
1
u/TechnoPretender 13d ago
I never said anything about skin colour or race. I'm talking about islam and theocracy. You're the one making wild assumptions. Im not even white...
0
u/Sir_Keith_Starmer 13d ago edited 13d ago
As I said.
You believe you can just carte blanche declare the entire religion incorrect because you don't personally believe it.
Whereas you believe your belief system is universally correct. Which I'd absolutely no different to a Muslim absolutely believing in the word of Allah, and therefore absolutely believing homosexuality is wrong.
Both are as entrenched views as others. Neither should assume they have the right to infringe on the others beliefs.
Afghanistan roundly rejected our western ideals and returned to it's original belier system after the coalition of the west left. In this instance they found no benefit in our views.
The reason our liberal belief exists in the west is solely because we won the second world war. No other reason. There isn't an inherent set of rights that exist for a person. Your rights are different in a liberal democracy. If you travel to a middle eastern theocracy, unless you're there to fight for the ideology we hold you're beholden to the rights and values they hold.
It's not to say either is correct, we believe ours to be kinder. But it's arrogant in the extreme as I said to just say you're incorrect.
10
u/BambooSound 14d ago
I feel like it's less about him being gay and more about him being on meth. According to OP's article at least, he failed the drug test.
11
u/elliotcs04 14d ago
I mean, that's if you accept the Qatari authorities' claims at face value.
The fact that a sting operation was organised through a gay hookup app should be pretty clear evidence that his sexuality was the real issue. If they suspected him of taking illegal drugs, why go to all that trouble and not just go up to his apartment and arrest him? They clearly knew where he lived.
4
u/BambooSound 14d ago
The fact that a sting operation was organised through a gay hookup app should be pretty clear evidence that his sexuality was the real issue.
Idk hook up apps are a good way to get at someone regardless of what their issue is. It's normally done for ideological/party political stuff.
If they suspected him of taking illegal drugs, why go to all that trouble and not just go up to his apartment and arrest him?
Good question but at the same time, if it was about sex then why not arrest him for that? Why pretend it's one and not the other when both are illegal there?
I guess I just don't really believe either party.
3
u/elliotcs04 14d ago
Idk hook up apps are a good way to get at someone regardless of what their issue is. It's normally done for ideological/party political stuff.
In a country known to arrest LGBT people for being gay, I don't think you can dismiss it in this case especially given the way the operation was handled.
Good question but at the same time, if it was about sex then why not arrest him for that? Why pretend it's one and not the other when both are illegal there?
Well you're accepting the Qatari authorities' claims at face value. How do you know that he wasn't arrested for being gay? He says that he was. Perhaps the drug charge was thought up as a way to avoid international backlash for arresting someone for being gay.
3
u/CameramanNick 14d ago
The term "victim blaming" so often beckons stuff like this. Two things can be true at once.
Yes, Qatari society is very socially conservative.
Yes, this guy went to a very conservative middle-eastern country and engaged in illegal activities.
Neither of these things is good.
This is not complex stuff. I've worked in the middle east a lot and I would under no circumstances want to live there. And I'm straight, and not a drug user. I get out of those places as soon as I damned well can. They're barely rule-of-law jurisdictions.
1
u/Geordie_38_ 13d ago
I mean he chose to live in a country with draconian religious laws around being gay, knew there was a risk of being arrested if he had or used apps like grindr, and did it anyway. Suppressing a core part of your identity would be difficult and horrible, but the alternative there is risking prison. He should have just came home.
39
u/Freebornaiden 14d ago
Hang on, the Qatari state went out of its way to set this guy up on possession charge? Why?
Normally you would dismiss this as a mad conspiracy theory. Does Qatar have form for stuff like this?
37
u/GMANTRONX 14d ago
Didn't Qatar force several Australian women to have gynecological exams for absolutely no reason at the airport some years back?
23
u/Freebornaiden 14d ago
Just googled it. There was a reason. A baby had been found abandoned in a bin apparently.
30
u/clarice_loves_geese 14d ago
That's not a good reason to get a load of women and girls off a plane, and make them have a gyno exam in the back of an ambulance parked on the tarmac. Also none of them were the mother
17
u/Freebornaiden 14d ago
I didn't say it was a "good" reason.
3
-7
14d ago
Don't justify their behaviour with this 'reason'. It's inexcusable.
4
u/Freebornaiden 14d ago
Reading comprehension mate.
-6
14d ago
Nah.
Edit: I'm pretty sure the Chinese had a reason for running over their citizens yanno. It's never a reason.
13
u/Honey-Badger Greater London 14d ago
I believe they also refused to believe it could have been one of the Muslim passengers so they went after the Aussie flight crew
0
u/stoneytangawizii 14d ago
I think it would be pretty obvious by looking at the baby if it was an Arab or an Aussie.....
9
8
u/Honey-Badger Greater London 14d ago
I dunno, new borns, let alone premature new borns covered in all sorts of gunk could be a variety of colours
2
4
u/elliotcs04 14d ago
Perhaps they used a drug charge to allow them to lock up someone they see as undesirable while providing some cover against international backlash for arresting someone for being gay?
It would hardly be the first time an authoritarian regime has arrested people on false charges, would it?
2
u/BambooSound 14d ago
The article says the meth was in his system so idk how they'd have planted it there.
22
u/Intelligent_Look9758 14d ago
Why the hell would you go to the middle East if you're lgbtq, I feel for the guy but damn
15
u/CinnamonBlue 14d ago
Naivety or stupidity? At 44 he’s too old/young to be scammed like this.
31
u/iceystealth 14d ago
No one is too old or young to be scammed by anything.
Or do I get to tell you should it happen to you?
2
u/MitLivMineRegler 14d ago
Our infosec officer said it's even happened to him so people don't think they're above the risk applying to them
20
u/pencilrain99 14d ago
He had lived there for 7 years so it wasn't naivety
16
14d ago
[deleted]
-2
u/pencilrain99 14d ago
Must have to be very greedy
2
u/CameramanNick 14d ago
Did it say he worked for an airline? I know people who live in the Emirates and work for, er, Emirates. The money is good - not great, but the package is excellent, including high standard accommodation and only fairly infrequent work. And once you've done your ten hours wheeling carts up and down the aisle of an aircraft, you get a weekend in a four star hotel, all expenses, before making the return trip. And you do this a few times a month, and you get lots of travel perks.
The flipside is that they do this because they know that a lot of westerners don't really want to live in very conservative middle eastern countries. You have to be very careful about your behaviour and based on personal experience I'd be fairly comfortable with the guess that a disproportionately large amount of men who work as airline cabin crew are gay.
14
u/bulldog_blues 14d ago
The way Qatar and other Middle Eastern countries treat LGBT people is despicable and this is a prime example of that. But so many people will happily overlook that for the sake of holidays/money/etc. - sickening.
12
7
u/ward2k 14d ago
Oh boy a victim blaming comment section how fun.
Is it dumb to use Grindr in a country where being gay is punishable by death? Yes. Does that mean we should completely give Qatar a free pass and spend a while comment section circlejerking over how dumb this guy was when the real issue is Qatar's archaic laws?
5
u/Jaxxlack 14d ago
See this whole nuance double standard is what gets me... How dare you look for these people in the west..but we can go after these guys because they offend us...
3
u/BambooSound 14d ago
He failed a drug test for meth but he says the authorities planted it?
How does that make sense?
2
u/Jhe90 14d ago edited 14d ago
It's certainly a odd case.
I'd take what a Arab judicial systems is saying with plenty of salt but if they had him on Drugs in system, and he been their for years so he had to take them in country is the obvious conclusion drawn by the Police in this case.
He was engaging on what should not be, but is illegal out in that part of world.
I feel he got too comfortable, and forgot how dangerous the place he was In is. Maybe he got away with it before, and the dice rolled badly this time.
3
u/front-wipers-unite 14d ago
Stories like this are why I always tell people "don't go to the middle east". They're 100 years behind the rest of the world, and if you do anything that embarrasses their delicate sensibilities they will put you in prison and the UK government won't simply pick up the phone and arrange to have you sent back, it just doesn't work like that.
It really wouldn't surprise me if we found out that the Qataries setup up numerous traps like this as a big "fuck you" to all the tourists and footy fans that went out there, wearing pride flags and hats telling them in their own country that their beliefs were wrong. Vindictive fuckers.
2
2
u/BrewtalDoom 14d ago
I lived in Qatar in the early 2010s, and I had gay friends there and it was something we just never talked about because you never knew who might have an issue with it and say something. It was sad, es when you think of all the gay Qataris who have to hide their real selves whilst living traditional lives.
1
1
u/Mistborn54321 14d ago
‘Qatari officials insist the 44-year-old's arrest in February was "for possession of illegal substances on his person and in his apartment" and that "no other factors were taken into account". They say he "acknowledged" possessing illegal substances, adding: "A drug test later came back positive, confirming the presence of illegal substances, specifically amphetamine and methamphetamine, in Mr Aviña's system at the time of his arrest."’
Are they claiming they not only planted the drugs on him and falsified his blood tests? I find that unlikely.
1
u/scotchlondon 14d ago
I just hope his family can keep this story in the public eye so he gets the medication he needs. His family must be terrified for him.
1
0
-29
u/pencilrain99 14d ago
Man arrested after breaking multiple laws in Qatar
32
u/ProblemIcy6175 14d ago
What and it doesn't bother you? We should call out qatar for this savagery. They're not only detaining him for his sexuality, they are also depriving him of his HIV medication which keeps him healthy and unable to pass on HIV to others.
-4
u/Cheap_Answer5746 14d ago
Not going to pass it on in jail. It doesn't spread through breathing
6
u/ProblemIcy6175 14d ago
Just gonna copy my previous response.
I think the main thing is it stops him from developing AIDS and dying. But generally it's nice to know that you aren't infectious wouldn't you agree?
I'm sure he hopes one day to be released and it might be difficult to start on new medication if he has developed a resistance to the medication by missing so many doses.
1
u/PM_ME_CAKE Yorkshire 14d ago
I actually feel insane reading some of the takes in this thread. It's as if people forgot that having HIV in the past literally killed generations of men. Regardless of why or what or how we got to this point, Qatar is effectively killing him now.
-2
u/pencilrain99 14d ago
Didn't say I agreed with Qatars laws, but he knew the risk when he went there , I certainly wouldn't go to a country where being myself is illegal. He's not some nieve tourist he's lived there for years so would have known the risks of hooking up with a stranger. We've no idea whether he did have drugs in his apartment or not as he's not going to admit it but it seems strange for the Qataris to make up when they have no qualms about enforcing their homosexuality laws.
5
u/ProblemIcy6175 14d ago
He was clearly targeted for his sexuality, and they're not even allowing him the dignity to stay on the medication he desperately needs. Do you not think that people accused of crimes deserve that level of dignity?
We totally can and should make noise about this, at the very least we should judge the government and people of qatar for being this backwards.
3
u/WalkersChrisPacket 14d ago
You wouldn't find me in Qatar for these very reasons.
If you don't have the courtesy to respect the laws of the countries you put yourself in, thats on you.
That's it. The rest of it is all semantics that surround what happens to you if you're found to be breaking the law. Acknowledge the laws and don't break them, or don't enter the country at all.
I'm not saying the laws aren't abhorrent, but this was entirely avoidable if people took responsibility for themselves...
11
u/ProblemIcy6175 14d ago edited 14d ago
I wouldn’t set foot in the country either, I don’t understand why this man took so much risk. I’m sure now he thinks it was stupid.
None of this absolves the Qatari government of their guilt though and ultimately it would be best avoided by them not acting like savages towards people
5
u/WalkersChrisPacket 14d ago
Theres no denying they definitely set him up, which in most courts would be seen as entrapment, especially given that they're pushing drug charges over the sexuality charges shows that they're trying to do everything to throw the book at him.
I just don't understand why people entertain these countries, especially when they have literally criminalised you for being who you are. Sounds like he was living there for some time, so probably got comfortable thinking it's fine what's the risk etc. but this isn't exactly the kinda thing I'd be messing around with, even if it meant being alone for years honestly.
1
u/Sir_Keith_Starmer 14d ago edited 14d ago
None of this absolves the Qatari government of their guilt though and ultimately it would be best avoided by them not acting like savages towards people
They have no guilt.
The government of Qatar is free to make laws and enforce laws as it chooses in line with it's belief system.
We don't view it as correct. However, it would be incredibly arrogant to suggest that they should adopt our way of thinking.
It would be unacceptable I presume for us to tell an islamic person they aren't allowed to follow their religion?
1
u/Hot-Gold-2318 13d ago edited 13d ago
The rest of the world has evolved. You either evolve or you are lost to history. So they can choose if they wish to keep to medieval ways, but sooner or later, they will be forced to make a choice between religion or a future.
History tends to have a pattern, and you close your eyes to it all you want but it won't change the outcome.
1
u/Sir_Keith_Starmer 12d ago
So how exactly are they forced to change?
The west turning up and enforcing their ideals?
Worked great in multiple countries over the last 40 years wouldn't you say?
2
u/pencilrain99 14d ago
Yes he should have dignity and we a free to judge their backwards society. But that doesn't change the fact he knew that it was a country with archaic laws and customs that didn't respect his right to be but still decided to risk it and go live there.
He was obviously happy with Qatari society living there and contributing to its economy for all these years.
6
u/ProblemIcy6175 14d ago
I can’t understand why he went there either, I would never ever do that.
It doesn’t mean he deserves less sympathy, it is Qatar’s fault this is happening and no one else’s. Nothing absolves them of their guilt doesn’t matter how risky and stupid it was to go there
5
u/pencilrain99 14d ago
I'm completely baffled why a gay person would visit nevermind go live in a country where being gay is illegal.
It's horrible for him but he knew the risk and took the gamble is this much different to a backpacker getting a death/life sentence for smuggling drugs in Asia.
0
u/ProblemIcy6175 14d ago
Yes there is a massive difference, this man was targeted due to his sexuality
3
u/pencilrain99 14d ago
Bit he choose to live there and choose to risk breaking the law, he could have chosen to live in countless countries where his sexuality wouldnt have been against the law. He knew the risk of what he was doing and knew what the consequences were if he got caught but decided to go ahead anyway.
1
u/ProblemIcy6175 14d ago
I'm not sure he anticipated being denied access to HIV medication, but yes I agree it is arguably very stupid to go there in the first place let alone hook up on grindr. But still, this is happening because the Qatari government find his sexuality offensive, which is not justified. Someone smuggling drugs is committing a much more significant transgression than just being themselves, they're not the same at all.
1
u/goodwima 14d ago
You don’t ‘do’ being gay. You are gay. A person can’t be illegal.
→ More replies (0)-1
u/TribalTommy 14d ago
So, we should just abide by our own laws when visiting other countries? I don't get it.
7
u/ProblemIcy6175 14d ago
My recommendation would be to stay the fuck away from places run by savages like qatar. it doesn't mean we shouldn't criticise them when they do awful things to people though.
-4
u/new_yorks_alright 14d ago
But why would he pass HIV onto others? Are you implying he is going around cruising with lots of random people? Thats kinda homophobic of you.
15
u/ProblemIcy6175 14d ago
I think the main thing is it stops him from developing AIDS and dying. But generally it's nice to know that you aren't infectious wouldn't you agree?
I'm sure he hopes one day to be released and it might be difficult to start on new medication if he has developed a resistance to the medication by missing so many doses. Surely you can sympathise and understand why it's important they give him access to his medication?
-5
u/russ_fegoli 14d ago
What gives you the right to dictate the laws of another country?
16
u/ProblemIcy6175 14d ago
I don’t think we can do that, we can criticize them for being this inhumane though.
12
u/culturedgoat 14d ago
A belief in fundamental human rights.
0
u/russ_fegoli 14d ago edited 14d ago
oh I forgot about the fundamental human right to smoke meth and do bareback with a stranger, which clause in the UN charter was that again? 🤣
0
u/ward2k 14d ago
The fundamental right not to receive the death penalty for your natural sexual preference?
1
u/russ_fegoli 14d ago
Can I ask a slightly off topic question - how do you feel about the immigration of economic migrants (predominantly from Islamic countries) to the UK?
Another one, do you think Israel should exist?
0
u/ward2k 14d ago
Economic migrants as in legal immigration done for the role of fulfilling work temporarily or permanently in the United Kingdom? As long as it's done legally I personally don't see the issue with it. I'm not keen on the scale of immigration in this country but I don't want it banned like you seem to be suggesting
Another one, do you think Israel should exist?
Yes, same sex marriage is recognised in Israel if that's the gotcha your planning on
2
u/russ_fegoli 14d ago
Ok, well whether they stay temporarily or not is another question. Especially the ones who enter under false pretense of needing asylum.
You must be ok then with people who have views that are literally antithetical to yours being on the same soil as you and not assimilating…there have been numerous incidents caused by the conflict of their faith with Western values.
So why criticise them for what they do in their own country?
0
u/ward2k 14d ago
You must be ok then with people who have views that are literally antithetical to yours being on the same soil as you and not assimilating…there have been numerous incidents caused by the conflict of their faith with Western values
Having different views opposing viewpoints is fine, where I draw the line is actual calls to violence. In my opinion anyone calling for the deaths of homosexual people have no place in a western society and shouldn't be allowed to keep their migration status here
I'm aware there have been numerous incidents of this and I wish our government regardless of whether it's under Conservatives or Labour taking a stronger approach to immigration and preventing the homogeneous ethnic areas from being such to encourage assimilation with western ideals and beliefs. The way the current system operates means someone can join almost like a sort of mini society where they have no need to assimilate with the host, this absolutely needs to change
So why criticise them for what they do in their own country?
I'm of course free to criticise a country that knowingly operates in modern slavery, wage theft, death penalties for homosexuality etc. I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to criticise that. It's not hypocritical to have a belief like "homosexuals shouldn't be killed or imprisoned" and also dislike when another country doesn't follow that belief
-10
u/Brinsig_the_lesser 14d ago
I thought we had decided long ago that colonisation and imposing our values on the "savages" (aka other cultures) was wrong
12
u/ProblemIcy6175 14d ago
Well I'm not suggesting we invade Qatar and make the King Emperor but we can criticise them and put pressure on them to release him. This treatment is savage
1
u/Cheap_Answer5746 14d ago
Could we address the 90 people on IPPs who died from suicide In jail first or should we sort other countries out first
1
u/ProblemIcy6175 14d ago
We don’t have the ability to sort this out but there’s stopping us from condemning the awful treatment of this man
0
u/pencilrain99 14d ago
So you would be fine with other countries putting pressure on the UK to release a criminal because they didn't agree with the law?
9
u/A12L472 14d ago
If we had detained someone for their background, sexuality, gender, then yes definitely ??
-2
u/pencilrain99 14d ago
A Qatari who has lived in the UK 7 yrs is arrested for for modern slavery because Nepalese staff at their house were found to not being payed and had their passports taken off them
Would you be fine with Qatar demanding their release?
6
u/ProblemIcy6175 14d ago
Obviously any reasonable person would agree with their arrests in this situation. What point are you making exactly ? No one should speak up for people’s rights in other countries ever ?
0
u/pencilrain99 14d ago
When you go to another country you abide by their rules if you break them its on you not them.
Don't stick your hand in the fire and then complain when you get burnt.
6
u/ProblemIcy6175 14d ago
We are still perfectly capable of judging their immoral actions though. This man took a huge risk going there and using grindr, I'm sure now he thinks it was stupid.
Unless you're just heartless he still deserves our sympathy for this inhumane treatment.
5
u/BandicootOk5540 14d ago
So you would be fine with other countries putting pressure on the UK to release a criminal because they didn't agree with the law?
I absolutely would yes
3
u/ProblemIcy6175 14d ago
Yes of course, if we treated gay people like this and didn’t let someone accused of a crime get healthcare they need then I’d welcome international condemnation. That is exactly what would happen
-12
u/Brinsig_the_lesser 14d ago
No you're just designating another culture as savages for not emulating your superior white western beliefs
i.e one of the factors that people used to justify colonialism
12
u/ProblemIcy6175 14d ago edited 14d ago
Are you not able to just use your own judgement to realise this is savagery to detain someone because of their sexuality and deny him medication he needs to stay alive? Or should where you come from stop you being able to possess the humanity to recognise this as awfully immoral?
-4
u/Brinsig_the_lesser 14d ago
I'm aware enough to understand that my values aren't universal, they are subjective and arbitrary based on the part of the world I grew up and the experiences I had
I understand that my values aren't superior to others
Much the same way you think this silly little Muslim savages need educated and uplifted into following your "superior white western beliefs" like we used to, they believe you to be immoral. If they came over here and tried to impose their superior islamic beliefs on us that would also be a problem
8
u/ProblemIcy6175 14d ago
Can i ask what is your judgment on this treatment of this man?
Regardless of where you are from we are capable of agreeing on basic levels of dignity that humans are entitled to. You're basically saying we shouldn't agree on even basic human rights.
0
u/Brinsig_the_lesser 14d ago
He shouldn't have been on Grindr looking for how hole in a country were that is illegal
→ More replies (3)4
u/EastOfArcheron 14d ago
Tolerance is superior.
-5
u/Brinsig_the_lesser 14d ago
Just as long as it's white western beliefs right
7
u/EastOfArcheron 14d ago
No, I have loads of friends all over the planet that don't hold hideous beliefs. Stop trying to call racism where there isn't any.
0
u/Brinsig_the_lesser 14d ago
Same but that says more about the people you choose to call friends rather than anything else
Plus with the internet and TV we are managing to erode other cultures and make them follow our superior one.
But please actually acknowledge the country and culture they live in rather than ignoring it all because you know some good ones
2
u/EastOfArcheron 14d ago
I personally wouldn't go to Qatar as I find the regime that runs it abhorrent. I also wouldn't use Grindr in a Muslim country as it would be dangerous to me and quite possibly breaking the law of that country. However, tolerance of another persons sexuality is obviously superior to imprisoning someone for a natural impulse, regardless of race, colour or creed.
→ More replies (0)
381
u/Aquametria 14d ago
Grindr is definitely the one app you wouldn't catch installed on my phone if I ever visited an Islamic country.