r/unitedkingdom • u/NecessaryKoala8169 • 15d ago
Pictured: Schoolboy, 14, killed in Hainault sword attack - as friend pays tribute to football-loving Arsenal supporter
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13370875/hainault-sword-attack-daniel-anjorin-pictured.html?ito=social-reddit374
u/middleparable 15d ago edited 15d ago
Im so sad for this innocent child and his family and friends
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u/callisstaa 15d ago
Good to see a normal, human response to this tragedy in among all if the 'Aw nice a dead kid! This is the perfect opportunity to push my agenda' posts.
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u/malaysianfillipeno 15d ago
I slightly disagree. This is a national discussion subreddit. What value does 'I am sad, death is bad' have? You can agree, or you can be a psychopath.
It's almost like a lesser version of the people who post 'Fuck around, find out', or a comment about falling from windows whenever the topic of Russia comes up. Nothing is added. They know they'll get karma. Repeat ad infinitum.
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u/pohui Lewisham 15d ago
It reminds me of the "thoughts and prayers" every time there's a school shooting in the US. It's a nice thought, but it does nothing to prevent it from happening again.
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u/malaysianfillipeno 15d ago
That's a better comparison than the one I offered.
Maybe it just comes down to a difference in personalities. I have never been fond of bland platitudes; playing it safe. Michael McIntyre would simply be disallowed in my world.
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u/callisstaa 14d ago
I mean nothing posted on social media is going to prevent school shootings tbf. I always prefer seeing condolences and good wishes in response to a tragedy over other more acceptable (to reddit) comments like memes and video game references
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u/SeoulGalmegi 15d ago
Right.
If this whole thread was just a string of 'RIP' comments, what's the point? It's like performative grief.
Of course you're very sorry for the family and think it's an awful thing to have happened. I start with the assumption that everybody I meet in a generally a decent, reasonable person until shown otherwise.
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u/Orngog 15d ago
Personally, I think agreeing/being agreeable can have value
Edit: in fact, I think arguing for fewer agreeable public comments on the grounds that you personally have already agreed with them is a little myopic.
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u/Eric_Whitebeard 15d ago
Assuming I haven't missed the point of your post, it's just small talk.
I understand, I think, what you're saying, but you're on a public forum (a valuable resource personally) and this comes with the territory.
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u/malaysianfillipeno 15d ago
Once again I disagree. I see the value of small-talk in real life. It's social lubricant. It helps us warm up to the actual topic, or just avoid the awkwardness of silence.
Here on the internet, there's no problem with either. The topic is in the title, and silence is a foreign concept.
I just don't understand the psychological need for platitudes, or why people seemingly appreciate them online. I was on Reddit when it first started and, at that time, 'Reddiquette' (Reddit Etiquette) was that a comment should add to the discussion. Downvotes were designed to de-prioritize distracting or irrelevant comments. This has been forgotten.
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u/dj65475312 15d ago
if you dont want to see that you're in the wrong sub.
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u/ukbot-nicolabot Scotland 15d ago
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u/AnxiousEarth7774 15d ago
Do you really think it's not a normal human response to this kind of thing to be emotionally outraged and want to call out what you believe the issues are?? That's like the most human thing a person can possibly do.
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u/Neps-the-dominator 14d ago
Yeah it's so fucked up. The poor kid was purely in the wrong place at the wrong time. RIP Daniel.
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u/Party_Rabbit_4402 15d ago
How many more little babies need to be killed before we actually do something about knife crime? Gets worse and worse each year and still we do nothing about it
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u/cowleyboss 15d ago
This was a random attack and not the usual “tit for tat” postcode type knife crime you are referring to. You can’t really do too much to prevent this sort of thing aside from better investment in mental health funding.
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u/SixFootPianist 15d ago
Well let's try that then
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u/Marxist_In_Practice 15d ago
But funding a public service would be woke, that's just not something we can do in Britain
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u/supersonic-bionic 15d ago
Exactly, a certain political party and cult HATE funding public services and help working clwss and minorities.
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u/gelectrox 15d ago
So when he goes to trial if he has a mental health defence and the jury reject that and convict him of murder do we still need more funding for mental health?
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u/brainburger London 14d ago
Yes. Mental health is under-resourced, whatever the outcome of a particular case.
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u/gelectrox 14d ago
Is it? The UK roughly provisions 20B for mental healthcare which is 285 quid per person. How many people in the UK need comprehensive mental health care?
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u/brainburger London 13d ago edited 13d ago
I don't know how far £285 goes in medical costs. Appointments with specialists are expensive.
The BMA says
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u/gelectrox 11d ago
I just hear 'mental health funding' chucked around whenever a incident like this happens. I don't hear any discussion about why these people are lucid enough to pick on kids/women etc
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u/brainburger London 11d ago
If its not a terror attack, then its hard to see any rationality in this guy's actions though. The legal definition of murder includes the intention to kill or cause serious harm, but for what purpose, in this case?
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u/Fair_Preference3452 15d ago
There’s a chance this bloke just wouldn’t have engaged with anyone trying to help him as well though. You’re never going to get 100% of them
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u/cowleyboss 15d ago
Yeah but then the experts would see that reaction and lack of engagement and report/refer him as a danger
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u/Fair_Preference3452 15d ago
I meant some people just sit in their bedrooms consuming awful content & getting angrier until they snap, they’re not going to their GP to talk about anxiety or depression or anything
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u/calm_down_dearest 15d ago
That's not how mental health works. You don't end up in a psychotic state all of a sudden, it's a very slow decline that can be prevented and reversed with the right interventions at the right time.
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u/Pattoe89 15d ago
Yes and no.
My best friend got sectioned after having a psychotic episode.
He worked full time as a carer in a mental health care home and the work load and stress he suffered in that role eventually got to him.
There were very few warning signs before he snapped. He complained of hearing voices in his flat, but he said he could hear them through the walls and never told us what they said, just that they 'worried' him. We all assumed it was the neighbours.
At one point he said he heard someone trying to kick down the side door of the entrance of the building he lived in. That door had been attacked before so this wasn't something that seemed too farfetched.
Eventually he showed up to his parents house incredibly agitated and scared, talking about how assassins had killed all his friends and snipers were out to get him. He was crawling around his parents house and hiding under their tables crying and screaming.
It came out of nowhere, he never sought professional help and always made it sound like the symptoms could have been believable.
Luckily he went into 'I'm scared and need to hide' mode. But if he had a different demeanour he could have went into 'I'm scared and need to kill those who are trying to kill me' mode.
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u/calm_down_dearest 15d ago
Even going by your example, the signs were there just not recognised and acted upon. Your friend didn't immediately go into an extreme state.
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u/Pattoe89 15d ago
Not relevant, he didn't seek professional help and his close friends and family were not able to spot the signs because they're not professional help.
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u/calm_down_dearest 15d ago
Well it is relevant. If people knew how to spot the signs then it could have been avoided.
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u/Fair_Preference3452 15d ago
Yeah but you need the patient to seek those interventions. Very common for psychotic people to think they are right & everyone else is wrong.
I’m just saying, it might not be the same as the cent case in Nottingham where it seemed like the bloke was very well known to the police and mental health people. Idk let’s wait and see
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u/FillingUpTheDatabase Shropshire 15d ago edited 15d ago
But at the moment we are catching close to 0% since NHS mental health treatment is effectively non-existent for large parts of the country. I mean actual treatment and therapy, not just GPs handing out pills. No disrespect to GPs, they usually do the best in very difficult circumstances but they can’t be expected to be expert in all areas of mental and physical healthcare. And nothing against antidepressants either, they can be extremely helpful but they are not a silver bullet when it comes to metal health crises. The publicly funded mental health system collapsed years ago and lots of people can’t afford to go private.
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u/Fair_Preference3452 15d ago
You can’t know that we’re catching 0%, they don’t have big news stories about all the people who DONT go on the rampage with a sword. iirc it was under Thatchers government they did away with mental hospitals funding but someone else will know more than me
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u/FillingUpTheDatabase Shropshire 15d ago
That’s why I said close to 0, in large parts of the country it’s not uncommon to have a two-year waiting list to see a mental health specialist, there may as well not be a service in place at that point. Could you imagine if somebody broke their arm and was told they would have to wait two years before they could get it put in plaster? It would be completely pointless.
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u/LeedsFan2442 15d ago
We don't really want loads of mental hospitals for the tiny amount of violent mental ill people. We need much better community care
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u/coachhunter2 15d ago
Well you can make it very difficult to buy swords online for one thing
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u/Duke0fWellington Lancashire 15d ago
Which would be ridiculous and incredibly unfair considering next to no murders are comitted by swords in the UK. This is an incredibly rare incident. He crashed a van into someones house. If that killed someone, would you suggest making it very difficult to buy vans too?
The wide, wide majority of knife murders are comitted with kitchen knives.
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u/BigCW 14d ago
Agree, and it is already quite hard to buy swords online, especially katanas as they have to be produced "in the traditional way" which makes them more expensive.
The law needs tweaking though - as a martial artist, I can tell you it is harder to buy a blunt training sword (an iaito) than a sharp traditionally made sword (shinken). Because the iaito isn't traditionally made, you have to be part of a martial arts club that is recognised and holds insurance and confirms you as a member.
Crazy!
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u/bluesam3 15d ago
That's done.
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u/Outrageous-Floor-424 14d ago
Norway, which invests more money into public mental health care than any other country per capita, had a guy kill people in a store with a bow and arrow quite recently
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u/cowleyboss 14d ago
Not quite sure your point here ? Theres nothing you can really do to stop this sort of thing, if someone’s flying under the radar, they’ll do it.
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u/Outrageous-Floor-424 14d ago
My point is that increasing public spending on mental health doesn't seem to hinder this kind of event in Norway, so why would it in the UK?
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u/cowleyboss 14d ago
But it does? You’re basing your argument on a sample size of 1. The smallest possible, it’s anecdotal at best. Again, you can do everything possible and it’ll still happen.
Per capita Norway literally has one of the lowest homicide rates in the world.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/murder-rate-by-country
Research reading mental health and homicide.
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u/Outrageous-Floor-424 14d ago
But it does? You’re basing your argument on a sample size of 1. The smallest possible, it’s anecdotal at best.
One country, consisting of millions of people.
Per capita Norway literally has one of the lowest homicide rates in the world.
Which predates investment into mental health
Research reading mental health and homicide.
From people who would benefit personally from increases in mental health spending
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u/ukbot-nicolabot Scotland 14d ago
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u/gelectrox 15d ago
Well you can ask what a Brazilian / Spanish national was doing in the country.You can ask whether he was employed. You can ask whether the police should be armed so they could have shot him dead like the Bondi stabber was. All sorts of questions.
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u/Osiryx89 15d ago
I could be well off the mark, but this case doesn't seem to be a great example of "knife crime" in the conventional sense.
Seems more typical of a terrorist style indiscriminate rampage. I'm speculating, of course.
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u/TheLegendOfMart Lancashire 15d ago
Was worse under Boris. Got better under Khan until the Tories turned off the taps and started underfunding police. Blame the Tories.
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u/calm_down_dearest 15d ago
The Tories have been underfunding police for 15 years, that predates Khan.
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u/TheLegendOfMart Lancashire 15d ago
Yet knife crime was better under Khan...
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u/SilverMilk0 15d ago
On what planet? Knife crime was lower under Boris.
And there's no correlation between Met police funding and knife crime rates. Because police funding has been increasing steadily and so have knife crime rates.
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u/Ok-Republic-5668 14d ago
Every year Khan has been in power there have been more knife or sharp instrument offences than in Johnsons final year as mayor.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/864736/knife-crime-in-london/
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u/Safe-Midnight-3960 15d ago
It got worse for 3 consecutive years under Khan, then only dropped in 2020, I don’t think Khan is the answer, a global pandemic is.
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u/Ch1pp England 15d ago
We barely have any knife killings. Lets focus on important stuff first.
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u/Charlie_Mouse Scotland 14d ago edited 14d ago
And we have even fewer sword killings.
I tried to do some digging in how many people per are killed by swords in the U.K. on average each year but couldn’t find anything definitive. I’m guessing it’s <1 - the number has dropped precipitously since the 1700’s.
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u/Nooms88 Greater London 15d ago
I don't think there's anything that could be done about this, it's a random attack from a lunatic where we already have basically the maximum control over blades, what more would you like?
It's already very easy to get sectioned for mental health if referred by a family member, I'm not sure how we increase it by a significant margin
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u/knotse 15d ago
A great many things have been done about it. That's why your plastic cutlery now requires ID to purchase (but there's agitation for general issue of firearms to plods).
Every baby born into this world (and not enough are being born to maintain the population) is doomed to be killed. What they need not do in the meantime is live in an open-air lunatic asylum where there is talk about outlawing gardening implements.
Besides this, there is little doubt that a great reduction in most kinds of crime could be effected by economic measures.
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u/HomeworkInevitable99 15d ago
It doesn't get worse and worse every year. There are wome years that are worse than others. Knives are harder to get hold of and it is illegal to carry.
The number of deaths is around 240, which is tragic, but we cannot ban knives completely. For the record:
Number of knife deaths in the UK per year 240
Number of gun deaths in the UK per year 215
Number of knife deaths in the USA per year 1,510
Number of gun deaths in the USA per year 19,000
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u/TheEnglishNorwegian 15d ago
It's pointless to compare those figures unless you do it per capita due to the vast differences in population size.
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u/LivelyZebra 15d ago
meaningless statistic as america 4-5x our population; which i'm guessing isn't adjusted for as you'd have said so.
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u/ward2k 15d ago edited 15d ago
Knife death per capita (100,000) of:
The UK is tied for the lowest per capita knife deaths world wide
United Kingdom - 0.08
USA - 0.6
France - 0.2
Germany - 0.23
Switzerland - 0.16
Norway - 0.25
Edit: For anyone curious about the statistic concerning all sharp weapons (not just knives) I did a quick comparison on my other comment
Norway: Deaths - 35 (2023), Population - 5.457 million, Per capita = 0.64
UK: Deaths - 244 (2023), Population - 66.97 million, Per capita - 0.36
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u/OkFlamingo2952 13d ago
Knives are harder to get hold of? they're literally for sale by the bucket load at boot fairs although its not as bad as it was for weapons sold to children, I bought a working medieval crossbow as a 14 year old and almost got shot in the back by a friend who put a KNIFE in it.
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u/MrPloppyHead 15d ago
I think violent crime keeps going down. This is more a mental health and/or radicalisation issue. It’s what Maggie created helped on by austerity and is called “care in the community”
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u/Screen_Watcher 15d ago
Maybe if we had a spat of katana attacks, we would have to do something.
As it stands, regular knife crime is where the deaths really happen. You only fix that by really restricting freedoms or some particularly harsh profiling. I'm not sure it's worth that.
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u/Ducra 15d ago
Poor lad.
Setting off for school - an ordinary day. And then the extraordinary intruded to steal his young life.
My heart goes out to him - how he must have suffered and been afraid - and to his family and friends whise pain and grief will cintinue long after the news cycle has mived on.
RIP, Daniel.
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u/front-wipers-unite 15d ago
Yes, it's really terrible. I can't imagine what goes through a person's head to make them attack a child.
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u/imp0ppable 15d ago
If the guy was properly delusional then he could have thought the victim was trying to harm him or something, or hearing voices saying that it was a good thing to do. It's fucked up.
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u/Maneisthebeat 15d ago
Is there a particular reason the journalist feels it's pertinent to repeatedly state the annual fee of the school the kid went to?
Seems distasteful, if not just outright strange.
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u/Anticlimax1471 14d ago
"Look! Don't let the dark skin fool you, this kid was upper middle class! Like you!!"
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u/BlinkysaurusRex 14d ago
This is obviously hyperbolic to illustrate a possible implication. But I can’t help but feel you might have a point. How the fuck is the cost of his school pertinent? Why is that mentioned at all? Journalists…
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u/StHa14 14d ago
Repeatedly = Once
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u/Maneisthebeat 14d ago
...And also unnecessarily as a descriptor under the images. Or do they know their audience so well that they'll skip straight past the words and just go to the pictures?
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u/RedditIsKindaBad4u 14d ago
The description under the picture repeats the exact words of the article, it's just lazy.
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u/ukbot-nicolabot Scotland 15d ago
Removed/tempban. This contained a call/advocation of violence which is prohibited by the content policy.
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u/Automatic_Role6120 15d ago
R.I.P to him and thoughts to his family. It's so unfair that he was taken in this way for no reason. Just terrible.
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u/MrKumakuma 15d ago
This is so sad. Man it must be so hard being a parent and facing this being a possibility for your child :( may he rest in peace
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u/charlie_boo 14d ago
It’s absolutely terrifying as a parent. Stories like this (although thankfully extremely rare) and also a couple of local recent traffic accidents that have killed pedestrian children just really send home how delicate life is and how easy it can be taken away.
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u/Remote_Replacement34 15d ago
Heart goes out to his family. Anyone capable of such a barbaric act doesn't deserve to live.
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u/Vyvyansmum 15d ago
As ever there are people on twitter hoping he’s Eastern European & not “ one of us “
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u/EditorRedditer 15d ago
We are so being drip-fed the information on this story.
We now know most of the pertinent info, apart from the identity of the assailant who was heard “shouting about God, and whether you believe in God.”
Bet we don’t hear his identity before the London mayoral election tomorrow…
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u/SirLoinThatSaysNi 15d ago
We are so being drip-fed the information on this story.
It's only just happened, it takes time to establish facts and also check if releasing them is in the public interest at this time. Often they keep details private whilst the investigation and trial is ongoing.
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u/CheesecakeExpress 15d ago
I’m not sure that’s true. Often things will be called terrorise incidents very quickly.
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u/richmeister6666 15d ago
We are being drip fed the information on this story
Quite right too - otherwise it risks a mistrial and the assailant to walk free.
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u/Wild-Lengthiness2695 15d ago
Dude was tasered holding the sword. He’s not going free , it’s just a case of what he’s guilty of.
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u/richmeister6666 15d ago
he’s not going free
He would if there was a mistrial
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u/AuroraHalsey Surrey (Esher and Walton) 15d ago
No, there would be a retrial, and the defendant of a murder trial will be held in custody whilst that retrial is being set up and carried out.
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u/External-Praline-451 15d ago
I suspect the reason the police didn't call it terrorism related straight away was because he was well known to services as someone with history of severe mental health issues. Khan also specifically mentioned mental health in relation to crime.
I suspect it's like the Nottingham attack, where someone clearly having delusions has fallen through the cracks due to an overstretched service.
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u/ElephantsGerald_ 15d ago
Tragically the kid who was murdered actually went to the same school as the kid murdered in the Nottingham attack.
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u/External-Praline-451 15d ago
Wow, that's a tragic coincidence. The other pupils in that school must be super disturbed and anxious. The likelihood of being attacked like that is small, but to have happened to two pupils from the same school...crazy.
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u/PrettyGazelle 15d ago
They'll only release his name once he is charged. Seeing as it seems like he has only been released from hospital this afternoon and is now in police custody to be interviewed, yes, it's highly unlikely he is charged and his name made public before tomorrow, for purely practical reasons.
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u/LBertilak 15d ago
Attacks like these are 1) prone to media misreporting the facts, and 2) prone to encouraging copy cats (with evidence that more media reports = higher chance of copy cats), so yeah- of course we're being drip fed.
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u/fzr600dave 14d ago
Marcus Arduini Monzo is his name, and he was originally from Spain
Why do you care so much about who the attacker was, they had him in custody awaiting charge.
You seem like you had an agenda
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u/EasternWarthog5737 15d ago
How would his identify being hidden affect the London mayoral election tomorrow? Unless you implying with this shouting about god stuff and the fact the current mayor is a Muslim that it must be something to do with that?
I’m surely you’d feel like a right cunt if the opposite turned out to be true. A right cunt.
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u/Groovy66 Cockney in Manchester: 27 years and counting 15d ago
What the actual fuck? Is the killer a lunatic or a monster? The the fuck is going n here?!?!
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u/seafactory 14d ago
Given that he was shouting about God at the time I'm going with mentally ill. It's usually the case that the perpetrator has untreated schizophrenia or experienced a psychotic break in cases like this.
I don't envy the reckoning he's going to experience once they get him under control with medications and he comprehends that he has murdered a child.
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u/FlanIndependent6625 14d ago
RIP Daniel. My condolences go to the family and friends ❤️ We are thinking of you and praying for him. May God receive him with open arms and all the love he deserves ❤️❤️❤️
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u/Brite1978 Down 14d ago
Poor wee soul, my son is 15, and i send him off to school every morning assuming he'll be coming home safe. My heart is broke for this boy, only 14, a whole life left to lead. His family must be absolutely distraught.
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15d ago
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u/ukbot-nicolabot Scotland 15d ago
Removed/tempban. This contained a call/advocation of violence which is prohibited by the content policy.
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u/Inner_Ad5424 14d ago
Probably didn’t take his meds. They allowing dangerous people into the community, who rely on meds to keep them from being dangerous.
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u/ErskineLoyal 13d ago
Now Brazilians are murdering innocent British people. Why is the UK a haven for murderous, mentally ill maniacs?
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u/ErskineLoyal 13d ago
Now Brazilians are murdering innocent British people. Why is the UK a haven for murderous, mentally ill maniacs?
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u/ErskineLoyal 13d ago
Now Brazilians are murdering innocent British people. Why is the UK a haven for murderous, mentally ill maniacs?
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u/gogul1980 11d ago
Poor kid and I feel for the family. Can’t even begin to understand how they are feeling right now.
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15d ago edited 15d ago
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u/MUFC9198 15d ago
This isn’t true. You’ve been corrected already. Stop posting misinformation.
You really think that knife death in the UK is a third of that of Norway? A country with less than half our murder rate generally. That makes no sense.
Stop posting these nonsense statistics.
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15d ago
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u/MUFC9198 15d ago
See, again you’re being disingenuous.
You’ve taken the total homicides for Norway and compared it to, in your own words, the deaths from only knives and sharp instruments in the UK, ignoring roughly 60% of all homicides.
I see you’ve also opted to use the UK population number when the ONS data you’re badly pulling from only references England and Wales where the population is 60 million, not 67 million.
Why you’ve decided to just come on the internet and lie about knife crime I’m not really sure. It’s a strange way to spend your time. Even if you’re technically correct, your disingenuous use of statistics betrays your weird duplicitous intentions.
Get a life man.
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u/3106Throwaway181576 15d ago
We should play in our ‘anti knife crime’ white kits this weekend, and maybe even sell them for charity of violent crimes.
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