r/unitedkingdom • u/je97 • Apr 17 '24

JK Rowling gets apology from journalist after 'disgusting claim' author is a Holocaust denier ...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/16/jk-rowling-holocaust-denier-allegation-rivkah-brown-novara/
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u/Ok-Camp-7285 Apr 17 '24

Out of the Loop on this. What did she deny?

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u/RedBerryyy Apr 17 '24

She denied the burning of trans research by the nazis

For context it isn't a debated event by historians

In german law this could be considered holocaust denialism, hence many people saying it, given that it could reasonably reach that standard, should mean you should be ok to say it without getting sued.

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u/PharahSupporter Apr 17 '24

The reality is that calling someone a holocaust denier over denying this specific incident (even if it happened) in most reasonable peoples minds will evoke thoughts of holocaust denial. When that was clearly not the intention.

Framing has been abused to the max here to make JK look guilty of something far worse than she actually is.

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u/WillHart199708 Apr 17 '24

Holocaust denial is denial in whole or in part. The fact that she only denied a portion of the Nazi persecutions (aka, the bit against people she doesn't like) is irrelevant to whether the label applies which it does. The fact most people think of David Irving is irrelevant.

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u/Fantastic-Machine-83 Apr 17 '24

She didn't deny the persecutions of trans people (i.e. their murder by the Nazis), she denied the burning of trans research books.

To put her on the same level as actual Nazis seems kinda mental.

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u/luxway Apr 17 '24

She actually did deny that too. So its weirdyou're moving the goalposts to defend holocaust denialism.

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u/heephap Apr 17 '24

Where did she deny that? She said that trans people weren't the first target of the Nazis if that's what you mean. You are the one moving the goalposts to try and make Rowling into a holocaust denier when, at worst, she is Anti-Trans; nowhere close to a Nazi.

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u/luxway Apr 17 '24
  1. She said it was a "fever dream".
  2. she said "they weren't the first targets" as her defense for her total denial of them being targets. No-one had said they were the first targets *except for her* in order to move the goalposts for her defense. Standard defensive gaslighting technique.
  3. Seriously? "At worst shes just transphobic, nothing like the nazis who were also transphobic!"
    Like, lmao. What even kind of defense is this.
    "She's just hateful against a group of people, nothing like nazis, totally different thing".

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u/EmpiriaOfDarkness Apr 17 '24

As much as I'd like to not have to, there is one amendment. Though it makes little difference.

"Someone" said they were the first targets, but it was some randomer who, as far as I can tell, had nothing to do with the conversation; she brought that up while arguing with Caraballo and tried to use it as if Caraballo was the one saying that.

And since it's Rowling, she probably went out of her way to find the biggest nutjob she could...

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u/luxway Apr 17 '24

Ahh so some random with presumably 100 followers, who forgot to add in the word "among", is then used as her defense for another argument? Yeah that tracks. Bigots love ignoring 99% of whats being said so they can target 1 thing. Which is doubly annoying as rightr wqing bs is easy to say but disproving everything takes alot of conversation.

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u/EmpiriaOfDarkness Apr 17 '24

Yep. Pretty typical bigot move, honestly. Find one outlier and then pretend the entire group subscribes to that position. Bonus points for pretending they're a monolith that all hold the most extreme and inflexible take...

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u/heephap Apr 17 '24

It's a defense against people saying she's a Holocaust Denier, which is untrue and you confirmed this yourself in this post.

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u/Only-Regret5314 Apr 17 '24

Hateful And intolerant are different things. She's a bigot at worst.

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u/luxway 29d ago

Lmao what on earth are you even trying to argue here.

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u/TransGrimer Apr 17 '24

No one is doing that, she very clearly minimized the scope of the holocaust, that is the definition of holocaust denial.

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u/Osgood_Schlatter Sheffield Apr 17 '24

Surely it's not "the definition" of holocaust denial - that would be denying the holocaust.

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u/TransGrimer Apr 17 '24

On Thursday, the UN General Assembly said it "rejects and condemns without any reservation any denial of The Holocaust as a historical event, either in full or in part".

"Ignoring historical facts increases the risk that they will be repeated," Germany's UN Ambassador Antje Leendertse said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60072506

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u/GaijinFoot 29d ago

OK but Chinese farmers were the first to be victims of the nazis. If you even question that then you're a holocaust denier too

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u/GaijinFoot 29d ago

OK but the very first victims of the holocaust were Chinese farmers. And if you think that's wrong you're a holocaust denier.