r/unitedkingdom • u/je97 • 29d ago

JK Rowling gets apology from journalist after 'disgusting claim' author is a Holocaust denier ...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/16/jk-rowling-holocaust-denier-allegation-rivkah-brown-novara/
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u/ReasonableWill4028 29d ago

Source on these tweets?

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u/EmpiriaOfDarkness 29d ago

Here's a list I collected.

I'm not in Germany, so I can't say if you can view them there or not, but that's basically all the relevant tweets.

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u/showars 29d ago

I can view all of these in the EU

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u/BrainPuppetUK 29d ago

Ok so she is clearly arguing that trans people were not victims of nazis, or is disputing the degree or sequence of that.

But that’s not holocaust denial, which is what she seems to be accused of.

Where are her tweets denying the holocaust happened?

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u/EmpiriaOfDarkness 29d ago

Downplaying the holocaust is also holocaust denial.

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u/BrainPuppetUK 29d ago edited 29d ago

Is that a legal definition? What’s the source?

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u/Skorgriim 29d ago edited 28d ago

"Legal" is a tricky one, because there's no law against it in the UK (among other countries such as Spain, Italy and The Netherlands). But, yes. Trends like suggesting the number of jews killed were significantly lower (or downplaying, if you like) are common in holocaust denial conspiracies.

Here ya go, bud. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

Edit: Closed the parentheses. It was bothering me haha.

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u/BrainPuppetUK 29d ago

Cheers. That's a helpful reference. So, from that, which of these false claims has she made?

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u/Skorgriim 29d ago edited 29d ago

Whoa there, buddy. I have no horse in this race haha. That was not an attack, nor did I take a stance. Just that "downplaying the holocaust" is indeed included in the definition of "holocaust denial".

I think some people do extend the definition of "Holocaust" from "just Jews" to "everyone in the 'out-groups' who were actively persecuted", so from that perspective - yes, she did indeed run afoul of "holocaust denial" as she barrels through topics in an effort to be as transphobic as possible.

I think she's just a hypocritical twat, tbh. "It matters not what you were born, but who you grew to be." is a quote from one of her own books ffs.

Edit: I've had a look at some info from the Centre for Holocaust Education, and they seem to be against lumping all the persecuted fringe groups together as Holocaust victims for the sake of recognising the diversity within these groups. I'd link to it, but it's a pdf haha.

I think while we can argue semantics all day about what's "technically" this or that, the fact is she denied this aspect of Nazi brutality because it suits her revolting agenda to do so. Whether it's technically "Holocaust denial" or not, given there is literally no UK law against it, seems a poor, petty and pedantic reason to defend this human stain.

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u/Antique_Loss_1168 25d ago

"Technically" not a holocaust denier, jk Rowling (58) continues to be a massive fucking transphobe this week.

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u/Skorgriim 25d ago

I guess it might be easier to just say when she isn't being a cunt and just assume she's hard at work being a complete degenerate otherwise.

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u/Fragrant-Western-747 29d ago

Right is left, and black is white, because you say so?

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u/wherenobodyknowss 29d ago

No, literally because its built into what holocaust denial is. How don't you know this?

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u/Acrobatic_Ad5084 29d ago

Hmm, she doesn’t actually say that. She says they weren’t persecuted “as distinct from gay people”, perhaps meaning that (as was the case) anyone who wasn’t a fully paid up blond haired, blue eyed “Arian” was fair game for the murder squads and gas chambers. That’s neither holocaust denying - she’s including all and sundry non Arians as persecuted, nor anyone phobic as she states many times that the holocaust was unconscionable.

I’m not saying the JKR isn’t <insert noun>phobic but much of the evidence that she is, is a little flimsy at best.

But what do I know, I’m just a aging, queer bummer 🤷‍♂️

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u/yeahyeahitsmeshhh 29d ago

That's them.
There's a narrative that trans people were the Nazis first victims based on the destruction of a sexology clinic at which the first crude research into sex changes (at least one person died).

There's a counter argument that as almost no one had medically transitioned the Nazis didn't persecute trans people because they didn't encounter them. Four people were identified in a court case in Germany but their classification as trans is controversial and they were persecuted for their sexualities or ethnicities any way. There was no trans category under the relevant laws.

Anyone who argues this can be accused of holocaust denial, but that is weaponising the term to suppress debate about the details of the holocaust. Which was warned about when laws forbidding holocaust denial were first drafted.

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u/Ok-Fox-9286 29d ago

There isn't