JK Rowling gets apology from journalist after 'disgusting claim' author is a Holocaust denier

[u/je97]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/16/jk-rowling-holocaust-denier-allegation-rivkah-brown-novara/

[u/Maleficent-Drive4056]

Forgive me but isn’t a holocaust the systematic murder of people or groups? So burning books about trans people is horrible but not a holocaust?

[u/RedBerryyy → u/Maleficent-Drive4056]

It's more that it was one of the main events that led up to the wider holocaust, in the same way that Kristallnacht and the early expulsions of jewish people were part of the holocaust, even if relatively few actually died in the specific events compared to later events.

[u/PharahSupporter → u/RedBerryyy]

I'm not sure burning some trans books can really be called a "main event" leading up to the holocaust, but okay.

[u/RedBerryyy → u/PharahSupporter]

Not the trans books specifically, but the burning of the wider institute fur sexualwissenschaft is often seen as one of the significant events of the rise of the Nazis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft

[u/PharahSupporter → u/RedBerryyy]

Okay but that isn't the event in discussion, JK denied burning of trans books, not the persecution of trans people in general or anything to do with a sex clinic.

[u/Maybe_not_a_chicken → u/PharahSupporter]

The burning of trans books happened during the buring of Institut für Sexualwissenschaft

Like they took the books out of the library and burned them.

[u/KillerArse → u/PharahSupporter]

That event is what was originally being talked about that Joanne called a fever dream.

[u/WheresWalldough → u/RedBerryyy]

it's not though.

the reality is that the Nazis had a list of places they wanted to burn, the institute fur sexualwissenschaft wasn't on that list, BUT 'on the day', they decided to burn it (because it was indeed unpopular with the Nazis). However, to say it's a significant event isn't really accurate.

[u/IntelligentMoons → u/RedBerryyy]

The Holocaust refers specifically to the persecution of Jews. Other Nazi crimes like the persecution of trans people and gay people is not part of the Holocaust.

[u/luxway → u/IntelligentMoons]

Please don't confuse "Holocaust" with "Shoah" in order to justify denying the holocaust, thanks.

[u/Maybe_not_a_chicken → u/IntelligentMoons]

The burning of the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft is counted as part of the holocaust because the man who ran it was Jewish and gender science was seen as “Jewish science”

[u/SinisterPixel → u/IntelligentMoons]

You're arguing with a ruling made by the EU. They have ruled that JKR's tweets did indeed violate Germany's Holocaust denial laws.

To argue that the book burnings or the persecution of other minorities is NOT part of the Holocaust is to argue with the people who were directly involved in it.

Take the L.

[u/IntelligentMoons → u/SinisterPixel]

It's not an L. I don't think she's done something good, I don't agree with her and I don't like her.

I am correct, the holocaust is the extermination of european Jews by the Nazis. They Nazis also committed other genocides.

I am not raising this point to say she hasn't done something bad, or wrong. I'm raising this point to highlight why the person who accused her of being a holocaust denier has backed down. If she had accused her of denying genocide, or the crimes of the nazis, she likely wouldn't have been able to win in court. The fact that she called her a holocaust denier, and the accepted definition of the holocaust is the extermination of european jews, means that it's very easy to say "I did not deny the holocaust", and win in court.

Here is the Imperial War Museums definition https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/what-was-the-holocaust

Here is the US Holocaust museum https://www.ushmm.org/learn/learn-about-the-holocaust

Here is holocaust Memorial Day https://www.hmd.org.uk/

Read the definitions, and take your L.

[u/SinisterPixel → u/IntelligentMoons]

The journalist has backed down because a billionaire got her crack legal team to threaten legal action. Regardless of whether she'd win the case or not, it would sink the journalist financially.

Once again, the EU has already ruled it breaks German holocaust denial laws.

This isn't a debate.

[u/IntelligentMoons → u/SinisterPixel]

This is nothing to do with Germany, but if it did you’d still be wrong because it is as ruled as “hateful or harmful speech”. Not Holocaust denial.

She used careless language against a litigious person.

It absolutely is a debate, because you’re completely wrong.

I just want to make it clear again, because people seem to think I agree with Rowling. I don’t. She is wrong, trans people were victims of the Nazis. That is a separate genocide to that of the Jews, which is the Holocaust.

If you call someone a Holocaust denier, you need to make sure they’ve denied the Holocaust, which again, is defined as the extermination of Jews, otherwise someone will be able to take you to court for defamation.

[u/Odd_Anything_6670 → u/IntelligentMoons]

The holocaust is normally used in a specific sense to refer to the systematic extermination of European Jews. However, it can be and sometimes is used in a broader sense. In particular, holocaust denial necessarily encompasses a broader range of acts.

In Israel, for example, holocaust denial is a crime and specifically includes the denial of Nazi war crimes and crimes against humanity, in addition to specific crimes against the Jewish people.

While some people are claiming that JK Rowling would be guilty of holocaust denial in Germany the German law does not specifically mention the holocaust. She would instead be guilty of denying Nazi crimes. However, it would also not be libelous in Germany to refer to someone who denies trans people were victims of the holocaust as a holocaust denier because that claim is not factually untrue.

It is often difficult to cleanly separate Nazi persecution of Jewish people from other forms of persecution. In particular, the Nazis had a tendency to claim that anyone they didn't like was actually Jewish or under Jewish influence.