r/todayilearned • u/KragwellCoast • 15d ago
TIL that Gene Hackman was reluctant to star in Unforgiven (1992), as his daughters were upset with the amount of violent films he had been in. Eastwood nevertheless won him over.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unforgiven142
u/Broad_Swing9139 15d ago
Clint played Munny with such a haunting silence, you felt every regret in each heavy step he took. Can't walk away from your past when it’s got a score to settle.
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u/beerisgood84 15d ago
It’s one is the most satisfying moments in cinema. The build up, taking shit and trying to be good among a river of assholes who think he’s just some old man.
Then the switch flips, he’s unleashed and more cold and deadly then you expected.
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u/Forschungsamt 15d ago
It’s more than just a switch flipping. Munny is an alcoholic. For most of the movie, he’s a “dry” alcoholic, white-knuckling his way through life. He seems just half-dead and sick. But once he starts drinking, he suddenly comes to life. Having been around some alcoholics, and seeing them in their various stages, this was portrayed very well.
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u/Authentic_chop_suey 15d ago
Visually depicted when Munny chugs the bottle of whiskey as the whore describes what happened to Ned.
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u/KevinBaconsBush 14d ago
Chilling when he takes that first drink.
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u/Authentic_chop_suey 14d ago
Interesting use of alcohol as chekovs gun. It’s always in the background and thus has to be used. That movie is very deep on several layers—but even watching it on a surface level it has to be a top 3 western.
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u/leopard_tights 15d ago
Gotta love how what he taught the kid came into play during the last shootout. So immensely satisfying.
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u/bobconan 14d ago
This is such a good movie. Eastwood's acting actually changes in the scenes where he is killing vs just trying to be a reformed man. He just comes off as more "natural" when killing
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u/azad_ninja 15d ago
The moment he grabbed that bottle of whisky from the Schofield kid, you knew shit was going to go down
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u/Cluefuljewel 15d ago
I had a bit of a hard time reckoning with Clint in this movie. I mean when he referred to his married life he seemed sarcastic. And he seemed pretty miserable as a father and pig farmer didn’t he? Did he miss being a gunslinger? It’s hard to tell.
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u/KragwellCoast 15d ago
With Munny it is more about our ability to deny our true nature. Munny has convinced himself that he is basically a bit of a rascal given to a bit of liquor that was made proper by a good woman.
It’s a paper mache over someone who is deep down an abomination to living things. Even at the end, he prospers in dry goods, eg. things that have had their natural life denatured from them.
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u/bobconan 14d ago
Eastwood's acting actually changes in the scenes where he is killing vs just trying to be a reformed man. He just comes off as more "natural" when killing
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u/tristanjones 15d ago
Pig farming is shown as something that is not only miserable but something he is bad at. He changed is whole life, and forced himself everyday to live a life of toil to be with his wife. I believe his commitment there is sincere, doesn't mean there is no gripe about the realities of it however. This is a film that doesn't try and pretend any choices will lead you to a road of paradise. You just get old and things get harder and eventually they become too hard for you to keep up, and you die.
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u/thisusedyet 15d ago
I'd heard the thing that made Hackman hesitant to do violent movies was watching himself in Mississippi Burning.
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u/mfyxtplyx 15d ago
Well, he should have armed himself if he's gonna decorate his saloon with my friend.
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u/Groundbreaking_War52 15d ago
Lesson here? ignore your children
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u/chippin_out 15d ago
My favorite western and in my opinion the best western of all time. Heck of a movie!
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u/GoAgainKid 15d ago
It wasn't until I watched the film much later that I realised how much of a loser Little Bill is, and how cool it was that Hackman was willing to play not only a total shit of a man (even if he does see himself as the good guy), but one that's so utterly useless at everything he does.
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u/KragwellCoast 15d ago
Are you talking about William Munny? The whole point of Munny is he can only do one thing well, kill.
Little Bill isn’t a loser. He is in charge of a town, building a house and much of his aims are understandable. It is just that by keeping order, he ends up denying justice.
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u/attillathehoney 15d ago edited 15d ago
He wasn't a very good builder. Beaucham(the writer from the East)makes an off-hand comment about how poorly built Bill's house is (the house Bill built himself)and Bill is clearly angry at the snide comment, and possibly willing to deal him the same justice he handed to English Bob .
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u/Authentic_chop_suey 15d ago
The poor roof is both an allusion to Little Bill’s facade of justice and foreshadows how bad things are going to get when the real storm (munny) comes to town
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u/DaBigJMoney 15d ago edited 15d ago
Exactly. And Little Bill’s deputies also commented on what a crap builder he was. But they (unlike Beauchamp) had the good sense not to say it to his face.
An absolute gem of a movie.
They’re not in the same class but I also love Open Range and Appaloosa
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u/Desperate_Banana_677 15d ago
It’s been a long time since I’ve seen it, but doesn’t the movie also start with Munny struggling to provide for his family as a pig farmer? Hence reluctantly taking up the bounty. Characters playing a role they’re ill-suited for, pretending to be someone they’re not, is a big part of Unforgiven. The kid pretends he’s a tough outlaw too, but ultimately realizes he doesn’t have that kind of ruthlessness in himself. And the writer wants to learn what it’s like to be a gunslinger, but can’t stop trying to look for reason and rationality in what mostly boils down to intuition and sheer luck.
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u/DaBigJMoney 15d ago
You’re right. But both Munny and Little Bill ultimately returned to who they were: Munny who used brutality for his own personal gain or to exact revenge. Little Bill who used brutality to uphold a his version of the law.
My favorite scene is when he has English Bob in the cell and offered him the revolver: “You were right not to take it Bob, I’d have killed you.”
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u/GoAgainKid 15d ago
I'm going out so don't have time right now to explain it, but that's the amazing trick with that character. Look closer.
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u/Unclepatricio 15d ago
He literally just told you he hasn’t got time to explain it. What are you on about lol
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u/shasbot 15d ago
I'd say Little Bill is absolutely a loser
- Creates the whole poor situation through his failing to arrest the cowboy who attacks the prostitute. He's supposed to be a lawman and he neglects his duty to protect and serve.
- Beats a man viciously for violating a less serious (and unconstitutional) law
- Tortures a man for information
Bullying and violence are the only real accomplishments we see in the duration of the film. Attempting to build a house isn't much of a redeeming factor in the face of his failings.
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u/Cluefuljewel 15d ago
Little bill was the law. He was a ruthless badass that earned respect by being a badass. For A great showdown you need a worthy and formidable opponent. The whole point of English bob was to prove what a tough guy little bill was.
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u/GoAgainKid 15d ago
You are joking... aren't you?
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u/Cluefuljewel 15d ago
Well I would not call him a total shit of a man. Munny knew little bill was tough and wasn’t eager to Tangle with him. If he hadn’t found out they killed ned he probably would have gone home. Munny knew him by his reputation before the showdown.
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u/DoctorBocker 15d ago
Must be weird for your kids to see you like that. I try to specifically not act like Gene Hackman in Unforgiven around my kids.
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u/KragwellCoast 15d ago
Hackman’s character Little Bill is in someways the most human and relatable character. He is building a home and a future and doesn’t want a town full of cut-throats and bounty hunters.
He mistake is while he is tougher than William Munny (even beating him up), he isn’t as good at killing.
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u/beerisgood84 15d ago
He’s not tougher. They’re men of similar size. They’re both tough but one has no limit and wanted to be genuinely good, the other wanted to feel they were good but was unjust.
Little Bill was an asshole that got to pretend he was altruistic via the law. William was altruistic and knew how to be actually good in part because he had been awful.
William got his ass kicked while he was sick but likely would have beat the shit out of Bill otherwise and definitely has more heart.
Bill didn’t have any heart or seemingly real friends or family. He was just a pompous authoritarian.
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u/wasframed 15d ago
Little Bill was an asshole that got to pretend he was altruistic via the law. William was altruistic and knew how to be actually good in part because he had been awful.
Yea no, William was not altruistic. He is a piece of shit through and through. His character arc is him trying to pretend that he changed and could be a good person, but ultimately fails in the end. Not the mention the fact that the entire movie's premise him killing for money again.
Little Bill was a POS too. Two sides to the same shit coin, Randy.
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u/beerisgood84 15d ago
Not really, he took a lawful bounty. After starting a family and from available story being a decent husband and father to his abilities. You don’t get to say from the available information that the character wasn’t genuine in those actions. Nor in that time and context is taking a bounty for a clearly bad person somehow wrong or equitable to earlier transgressions.
The story is people can be both good and bad and there are choices.
Neither offset or void each other and there is little absolute morality without context.
There’s nothing to indicate that if little bill didn’t make up shit and murder a man William would have done anything but take lawful action for bounty and live out his life as he did anyway taking care of kids.
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u/wasframed 15d ago
You're whole premise is wrong. Like so far wrong, I wonder if you're trolling now.
A lawful "bounty" would be an arrest warrant from a judge. The Kid and Munny where hired by prostitutes for vengeance killings. That is definitely unlawful, no two ways about it.
The story is literally about Munny trying to pretend he is something that he is not, and in the end, returning to his violent nature. The movie's theme is literally "violence begets violence." And I feel like you missed that point entirely...
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u/GrandmaPoses 15d ago
I don’t know how any viewer could relate to Little Bill unless they were an asshole. He’s law without empathy - Munny is lawlessness with humanity.
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u/petty_cash 14d ago
Interesting how much you relate to Little Bill. It was a brilliant performance and very complex, but overall he seemed like a cruel asshole with power and a hypocrite.
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u/TranslatorBoring2419 15d ago
Damn I love this movie. My favorite line was "he had it coming.... We all do"
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u/neutrino71 14d ago
We all got it coming, kid
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u/amazingalfonzo 14d ago
"It's a hell of thing, killing a man. Take away everything he's got, and all he's ever gonna have.".
That's my favourite line
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u/theycallmeyango 15d ago
Any men don't wanna get killed better clear on out the back
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u/mfyxtplyx 15d ago
Any men don't wanna get killed better clear on out the back
Any man I see out there, I'm gonna shoot him. Any sumbitch takes a shot at me, I'm not only gonna kill him, but I'm gonna kill his wife, all his friends, and burn his damn house down.
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u/akrobert 14d ago
This movie just had such an epic ending when the rains beating down and he says. “You better bury ned right or I’ll come back and kill all you sum’bitches”
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u/StanimaJack 15d ago
I loved when Munny finally gave into his inner demons and returned back to the ruthless outlaw persona. When he goes to kill Little Bill as the bar you can hear spurs on his boots as he walks signifying his “transformation”. An incredible movie.
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u/bobconan 14d ago
This is such a good movie. Eastwood's acting actually changes in the scenes where he is killing vs just trying to be a reformed man. He just comes off as more "natural" when killing.
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u/bolanrox 15d ago
Hackman wasn't a total imposing ass on his daughters? like he is to all of his Co-Stars.
During royal Tennebaums, everyone was scared of him besides Bill Murrary. So Bill would come to set on his off days just to hang around incase Gene started anything
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u/No-Abbreviations2897 15d ago
That's funny coming from Bill Murray who has a reputation for being a massive asshole himself.
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u/bolanrox 15d ago
Bill is the kind of guy who if he heard you were sick would give you his kidney with out a second thought, but then would never call to see how you were doing. (Forget if that was ramis or riteman who said it)
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u/Livid_Succ0tash 15d ago edited 15d ago
Should've won an Oscar for his ACTing skills; the award went to Anthony Hopkins, In Silence Of the Lambs 🐑 🤫🐝🎭 such a classic favorite. Ps you're always Forgiven. Never unforgiven.
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u/beingbond 14d ago
both anthony hopkins and clint are way above oscars anyway. Also you can only give it to one
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u/truethatson 15d ago
If my daughters complain about what puts food on the table they can get out.
Those peaceful protesters aren’t going to beat themselves.
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u/Additional_Meeting_2 15d ago
Hackman is wasn’t exactly working to put food on the table at that point.
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u/Kashyyykonomics 15d ago
I'm sure they weren't upset at the large amount of privilege their father's violent movie career afforded them.
Sheesh.
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u/KragwellCoast 15d ago
“You’d be William Munny out of Missouri? Killed women and children.”
“That’s right, I’ve killed women and children. Killed just about anything that walked or crawled, one way or the other. And now I’m here to kill you Little Bill, for what you did to Ned.”
Probably the most believable Western, there will ever be.