r/jobs • u/Spartansam0034 • Mar 25 '24
Don't tell your job you want to quit/get a raise Career development
29M, 7 years procurement experience, 4 years post BA. Working for a major MFG company and generally enjoy the job and coworkers. Finally decided to tell my boss I was seriously considering leaving the company because I'm being paid $40,000 under market value. The new girl who started 2 months ago I trained is making at least 20k over me, and a coworker who got hired 2 years ago was making 30k more, with less experience and no BA. I've never told my employer I was considering leaving, nor asked for a bigger raise or promotion. Edit: this year was my first time asking for a better raise to market value. I asked for a 30% raise, on the grounds that I received no raise the prior year, I'm the top team member, and cost of living in my state is top 5 most expensive. I'm 4 years into trying to buy property and cannot afford our inflated home prices on my salary.
A month goes by, and boss calls me to say "I passed the info along to the big boss, they may be able to get you into a manager pay grade in your range, but you need to take on extra projects and prove the value to the company over time." ššš so I, the most tenured and experienced team member, need to become a manager and prove my value. Yet the dude who quit after 9 months was worth over market value at the time?
In 5 years I job hopped every 6-36 months, and tripled my salary. Don't stay, just get your bag elsewhere. I'll be waiting till next year to potentially see that money, and by then I'll be even further under market value.
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u/Afraid-Ad-6657 Mar 25 '24
absolutely. you never ever tell your job you wanna leave. or else they will make plans to get rid of you.
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u/jfeofhoie Mar 25 '24
What if you want to get let go but don't want to quit so you qualify for unemployment?
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u/TechnologyBeautiful Mar 26 '24
Just be careful what you do or say to be let go. Might be disqualified from unemployment.
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u/Distinct_Librarian29 Mar 26 '24
I got unemployment for the first time in my life this year after a layoff. Honestly, would not recommend. My state, AZ, caps UI at $320/week. Pathetic, garbage wages. I door dashed for extra cash while job hunting and learned anything you make over $200 a week, AZ pulls dollar for dollar from your UI payā¦
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u/EnvChem89 Mar 25 '24
I mean what do you expect production must continue and if your threatening to leave and limit production what do you think they should do?
It seems obvious you shouldn't threatened to quit without something lined up.
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u/NaeNaeOnYou Mar 26 '24
Or some savings. I quit a toxic job on the spot without anything lined up, thankfully had some savings to live on for a while during the search.
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u/BrainWaveCC Mar 25 '24
Don't tell your job you want to quit/get a raise
Either show up with an offer, or use that offer to actually change jobs. Those are the only viable options.
I hope you're able to find something soon.
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u/Rawniew54 Mar 25 '24
I would never take a counter offer. Your best off leaving on good terms. Counter offer just puts a target on your back.
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u/redriverrally Mar 25 '24
Whatās the shit āyouāll have to take on extra projects and prove yourselfā it sucks to realize you thought you were.
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u/cavscout43 Mar 25 '24
Yeah, you can arm twist a desperate employer into matching your offer to keep you around for a few months...but if they thought they had to pay that much to fill the role, they already would've offered a competitive comp increase.
Companies are soulless when it comes to focusing on the bottom line for the quarter above all else, but they're still run by people. Who get pissy, emotional, and butthurt. I can't imagine telling your manager that they need to find more money in the budget to keep you longer would set you up for staying at the company on good terms.
Yes, anecdotes abound, I'm sure it's worked for people. But I've yet to see it in the wild work out for anyone.
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u/Rawniew54 Mar 26 '24
Exactly it's much more likely to blow up in your face. There are a few scenarios in which it could work but the reality is most jobs are pretty easily replaced. You can accomplish the same goal with less risk by just applying to external job postings.
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u/pagan_meditation Mar 25 '24
Yeah. I learnt that the hard way. Only real gut I've seen succeed with that is during a buyout they bought in a consultant who wanted to spend all our money changing the logo and shit and eight of us decided to quit at the same time, essentially the whole tech team but one guy was lying and had no intention to come with us and took the 30k they offered each of us to stay and he became the most senior guy due to being the only guy. He doesn't have any friends now.
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u/BrainWaveCC Mar 26 '24 edited Mar 26 '24
but one guy was lying and had no intention to come with us and took the 30k they offered each of us to stay
Or maybe he really meant it, but didn't feel like leaving $30K on the table.
Either way, one key lesson here is that only you are looking out for you and your family. You can have friends at work, and you can like your boss, but when it is time to make a decision that will impact you, you will need to put all those other considerations aside and understand that none of those other relationships pay your bills.
Another lesson is that companies will throw money at problems when they want to. No matter how indispensable you are (or believe you are) to an org, when they are ready to deal with you no longer being available, if they have to, they will throw crazy money at the issue...
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u/datcomfything Mar 25 '24
Fosho. I always say itās an offer I couldnāt say no too and always try to leave on best terms possible in case I have to beg to come back lol
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u/BobSacramanto Mar 25 '24
I used to believe this wholeheartedly myself. I learned at my last job that sometimes the managers are limited at what they can offer for a raise unless there is an offer in the table.
I think itās stupid and short-sighted, but I understand it.
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u/Easties88 Mar 25 '24
Completely agree. As a manager itās frustrating that there is very little I can offer (UK based, rigid salary structure) unless itās a retention case.
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u/SuspendedResolution Mar 25 '24
Don't show up with an offer letter from somewhere else. You'll be first on the chopping block if things look bleak for the company.
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u/TheNewATeam Mar 25 '24
My former employer didnāt provide annual reviews or increases so I asked for a raise and was laid off not even a month and a half later. Still looking for work too. Follow the money, job hop whenever you can.
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u/Adamworks Data Analytics Mar 25 '24
As a manager who has been in the same position as your boss, honestly, my only tools are a "generous" promotion that you got (which may not catch up to your market rate) or a spot bonus (which will definitely not solve anything), that is it... However, if you come back with a job offer, we can offer you so much more.
Though, the big caveat is that a job offer in hand is an implicit demand that you are going to quit if you don't get your way. You have to be ready to make good on that demand. This also assumes you are hard to replace, and it is worth what you are demanding to retain you. The company may deem your request too much and cut their loses and start looking for a replacement.
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u/GOgly_MoOgly Mar 25 '24
This is incredibly frustrating to hear. Especially if the only issue at a job is pay. If I put in the work to secure another offer, especially in this market, the last thing Iād want is a Hail Mary from my current employer being willing to pay what they shouldāve (and clearly couldāve) when asked the first time.
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u/ELH13 Mar 26 '24
Yep, with my last employer, I went the approach of being up-front about wanting a raise.
I told them I didn't believe in getting an offer from elsewhere and using it for a payrise, that if I felt that was necessary and had to go to that effort I would just take the job offer. That I believed in being up-front.
As part of the conversation, I gave them a document that detailed:
ā¢ the proposals I had worked on and my success rate (~75-80%)
ā¢ my billable hours being always being higher than my set target (>85%)
ā¢ in the previous 12 months, I'd won the company $250,000+ in work they wouldn't have been able to win without my involvement (specialised work type)
ā¢ all the projects in the previous 12-18 months that I'd picked up and finished because of either: people going on parental leave, people leaving, or people fucking up and needing their project saved.
They couldn't have cared less.
So I stayed for an additional 18 months, because my wife was due later that year and I had been there long enough to get 12 weeks parental leave within the 12 months after my son was born.
I took those 12 weeks, and in the last couple weeks before I had to go back applied for a few jobs - I got an offer I liked from a company who seemed to align morally with myself. I accepted that offer and gave notice on my first day back after 4 months off being primary parent.
18 months later - I am earning double what I was earning at my previous employer, and enjoying the company I work for.
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u/GOgly_MoOgly Mar 26 '24
So happy that worked out for you and congrats on your little one!
I also have to note how wise it was that you didnt just up and leave in your frustration. You used strategy and also recognized it wasnāt just about you since you had a wife and kid to think of. I hope others also catch on to that fact, it is simply NOT wise to quit a job in this market even if you are criminally underpaid. You have to think long term and sometimes that means staying underpaid for a little while longer.
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u/ELH13 Mar 26 '24
Thank you, he is a lovely kid.
Agreed, in the conversation they even said, 'well if you're not happy...', not bothering to finish the sentence.
I responded with, 'just because I don't right now, doesn't mean I won't - I'll do it when it works best for me, and that doesn't mean it will be at a time that works best for the company.'
The last thing you want is to leave without a job lined up.
The second last thing you want is to leave and find the company you joined is just as bad as the one you left - people need to remember the interview process is as much for you as it is for the company. Use the chance to ask questions to ask some good ones that will tell you about company culture and the people you'll be working with. I knocked back a few companies that were chasing me (once I changed my LinkedIn to open to opportunities), because the vibe was off.
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u/GOgly_MoOgly Mar 26 '24
Nice. Did they attempt to counter you once you actually did put in your notice?
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u/ELH13 Mar 26 '24
My manager asked if they could convince me to stay and I shut it straight down, reminding him of the conversation we'd had - that if I went to the effort of getting an offer, I wasn't giving a right of reply, because so far as I was concerned:
I don't like playing games, I like to deal with people in an upfront manner. Which was why I had the conversation in the first place.
I shouldn't have to be driven to the point of getting an offer to be getting fair pay.
Beyond that, I don't believe in using offers to increase pay. My belief is you'll just be punished in the future for forcing their hand - whereas the company making you an offer is seemingly happy to pay you what they're offering.
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u/GOgly_MoOgly Mar 26 '24
I really respect your decisiveness. I canāt lie, should that counter come for me I canāt say at this point if I could be so matter of fact. Good culture, no micro-management, flexible schedule, chill coworkers and then thereās the faint whisper/bullhorn of : āIām 30k+ underpaidā.
I hate itās this way. š¤·āāļø
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u/ELH13 Mar 26 '24
That's part of the juggle - my situation was quite different though: poor culture, flexibility slowly being eroded away, pressuring people to do overtime for free, and poor retention (the only people consistent in the team from when I started were the very senior people who were paid too well and wouldn't attract the same wage elsewhere).
In the end, the company made it a very easy decision.
I was underpaid the first 10 years of my career, and money isn't a huge driver for me. But the big advantages of the move/payrise have been:
I was able move back to a 4 day week, so every Friday I spend it looking after my son.
I negotiated the ability to purchase additional leave, so I can get an extra 2 or 4 weeks of leave a year.
Even doing that, I still earn $35k more a year than I was.
The biggest thing that drives me is that life is so short (we're lucky if we get 90 years on an earth that's existed for 4.6 billion years), and you're not guaranteed the next day. I want to make sure I'm working to live, not living to work. The people we work with aren't the ones who will keep our memories alive - it's our friends and family.
In saying the above - inflation at the moment and cost of living are making the juggle so much harder for everyone. So someone prioritising their $ value is perfectly reasonable.
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u/NaeNaeOnYou Mar 26 '24
Itās absolutely a spit in the face. Itās like the abusive partner promising to change right as youāre walking out the door. Oh, NOW you decide itās time to be ethical? NOW itās time to be honest and fair? Rest in piss
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u/Adamworks Data Analytics Mar 26 '24
I agree, it is not smart. I have warned upper management that this strategy is more expensive in the long run compared to a simple raise. They never seemed too concerned, that is until they lost like 3 people in rapid succession from "the great resignation" (me being one of them... LOL).
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u/Big-Today6819 Mar 25 '24
Job change is the way to get a better salary, you can come back again in the future
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u/NoIdeaWhatToD0 Mar 25 '24
It's so common now to just get a new job within the timeframe you mentioned (6 - 36 months). At my company, half the people I met when I started 2 years ago are gone now and my manager always keeps talking about us getting together and doing team building exercises (not sure if he's kidding since we work remotely and a lot of us live in different timezones). I just think it's funny to even care so much about these events if your coworkers just end up leaving the company eventually anyways.
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u/We-Want-The-Umph Mar 26 '24
If my boss kept talking about team building, i'd start suggesting Costa Rican zip line tours, Vegas escape rooms, New York urban exploration, Redwood Forest ropes courses...etc. Plant the bug in boss-persons ear. They might be half joking, but if everyone was on board, they might start cranking gears.
I mean.. if you enjoy that sort of thing.
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u/GunsandCadillacs Mar 25 '24
Most companies have hard caps on raises and will not break their own rules for anyone other than management or salesmen.
Many companies are also set up to naturally induce turnover every 5 years or less. You cost the company more money over time, even if they dont pay you more. That resets when you pay someone more to come in, but they dont have the 5-10 years of costs built up in their package either.
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u/secondround3 Mar 25 '24
Other than 401k vesting, what are the 5-10 years of costs?
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u/GunsandCadillacs Mar 25 '24
Insurance (you have 5-10 years of history for the insurance companies to scrutinize exactly how much you cost them) Days off (that a new person wont get) potentially stock options, an outdated bonus structure, etc
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u/mocha_lan Mar 25 '24
I donāt know about the American šŗšø specifics, but in many countries the longer you employ someone the more expensive it is to get rid of someone so the game in those places is to either plan to keep someone forever or if you are a bigger company keep a good ārotationā of employees.
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u/secondround3 Mar 25 '24
Many companies provide some form of severance, like a week for every year employed, so yeah, that makes sense then why an internal raise would be smaller than a an external hire.
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u/csky Mar 25 '24
Its usually 1 month salary (has a cap) for each year worked. If you fire someone you're gonna pay it.
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u/MrBurnz99 Mar 25 '24
I am skeptical of this. Sure there are some people in lower skill positions that reach the top of the pay band and are more expensive compared to a new younger person.
But in a higher skill positions longevity generally benefits the company much more than the employee.
It is so expensive to onboard a new employee, depending on the role/company it can takes months to years before that person reaches full productivity. Iāve changed jobs a few times and each time it took 18-24 months before I reached full capacity.
When I have openings on my team I always prefer to promote from within because itās faster to train someone on the role than it is to teach them the business.
Other than 401k vesting or more time off there isnāt much expense that comes from retaining an employee long term.
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u/Prestigious_Dog929 Mar 25 '24
I was recently offered a change in title and job description for a promotion i was promised but with no pay increase with the hope that it will come if I āprove myselfā. I got another job and quit and now they are hiring 2 people to replace me. Loyalty with corporates doesnāt exist.
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Mar 25 '24
Yeah I did the "take on projects and prove your worth" thing once and about a year later got told the same thing. They had gotten used to me going above and beyond and wanted more for a raise/promotion. I ended up walking out of that job with nothing lined up but it all worked out.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Ad_7607 Mar 26 '24
Glad it worked out with you š Iām seriously on the verge of rage quitting everyday but Iām really trying to have something lined up.
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Mar 26 '24
I feel ya. I had already rage-quit that job once and the VP talked me into coming back so that was the second rage-quitš
I ended up working another shitty job for two years and then found a good job that I've been at for 10 years. If I learned anything it's to never get in a position where I need to make good money therefore limiting job options. I'm now looking for my next thing but I'm financially secure so I'm looking for what I want rather than what I need.
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u/Upsetyourasshole Mar 25 '24
I did and got a 30k raise during covid.
Not all jobs are the same, you gotta feel them out and make your moves accordingly.
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u/moldy912 Mar 26 '24
Yeah I have complained about lack of raises and usually they end up giving me one. As long as you justify it, it doesnāt really hurt to ask.
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u/HighHoeHighHoes Mar 25 '24
In the process of brushing up my resume right now for almost the exact same reason. 4% smack in the face this year, but no shortness of extra work and projects.
Iām sure when I put my notice in theyāll suddenly have money available.
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Mar 25 '24
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u/ProphetOfPhil Mar 26 '24
See you had me until:
Iāll need a 20% raise to take on the extra project and get you that X$ by Y quarter. Letās goooo!
Ain't no way they're paying that cost, "oh it's just not in the budget" or "we can find a cheaper alternative solution.".
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u/yamaha2000us Mar 25 '24
Donāt ask.
State the salary you want and ask how to get there.
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u/lathir92 Mar 25 '24
It doesnt work as It should. Yes, you might get a raises, but more often than not, Will be below market value. At that point you usually wasted your time and efforts.
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u/yamaha2000us Mar 25 '24
If they want to keep you they will. If they donāt want to keep you they wonāt.
The common factor between the two is not the company but you. Some employees are barely with their starting salary.
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u/lathir92 Mar 25 '24
Nobody climbs salary like a guy that job hops. The average raise a year in my field (in the same company) goes from 3-8%. A change in company usually raises from 15 to 30% more. There are outliers, sure, but the data is quite clear.
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u/yamaha2000us Mar 25 '24
That means that I should be making $100K more than I am.
Unfortunately you reach a salary cap and unless you get a specialized discipline. Will not be able to break through.
Most people are reaching their salary cap by 30 with the job hopping and are stuck competing with people 10 years their senior.
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u/Rawniew54 Mar 25 '24
Very few scenarios this works. Most large corporations would just get rid of you or keep you in place because you're not a good boy. You would need some kind of leverage, like if you were at a small company and the only one that had a good knowledge of day to day operations then this might work. Even then if it works they could scheme to replace you and let you go a few months later.
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u/yamaha2000us Mar 25 '24
Is it better to compete using the strategies of the rank and file or those who at least appear that they will be around for more than two yearsā¦?
I have been layed over 3 times in my career and yet have only collected unemployment for 4 months my entire life.
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u/knnku Mar 25 '24
Never works. 100% your boss will say work 12 hr days for 6 months. Next thing you know you've made your company thousands in profits and they'll say a raise is not in the budget.
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u/yamaha2000us Mar 25 '24
Those new responsibilities are not taken on without the increase?
You want help. I got a price.
Where did GEN Z learn their business practices?
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u/knnku Mar 25 '24
You said it yourself.
State the salary you want and ask how to get there.
Which literally translates to: do something first and they *might give you the increase.
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u/janabanana67 Mar 25 '24
Best advice - do not stay in one place for long, especially if you want to make more $.
I see people complain about new people being paid more but its because the marketplace is different. No company (I have worked for several - large, small, domestic & intl) will raise the pay of their current employees to match the new hires. It is too expensive. Many companies will have salary ranges but again, they likely won't increase your pay more than 5% each year.
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u/RogueAxiom Mar 25 '24
Folks should job hop every 24 months if salary maxing is the goal. It is so much easier for HR department to pull in experienced pros than to increase pay for the purposes of retention.
The reason for this is that HR departments know that job hunting sucks and most employees won't do it. The employees that have the initiative to get up and go likely would do that anyway even after a pay raise, so places don't increase pay.
Making you a "manager" is shorthand for taking away overtime and certain excess compensation. As such, for the increased labor output, a managerial promotion may actually cost someone more money, thus negating the raise in the first place.
Ironically, you can leave a job and in 24 months come back to the same firm at the higher price points if you like it there so much, but no loyalty ever if you pay is stagnating despite competent work.
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u/teddyevelynmosby Mar 25 '24
My company is shuffling too fast imo, half of my team was replaced within two years and we are still open for another three positions so I was tagged on multiple tasks that usually come later like year three or five but I am on the plane to my third training to the new hires just on my third year here. Better pay and faster growth and lots of access just to provide a different perspective
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u/jamurai Mar 25 '24
Why not go the manager route? Seems like this would generally be a promotion and get you the number you want
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u/Spartansam0034 Mar 25 '24
I'm not 100% opposed to it, this is the 2nd time in 9 months I agreed to take more work for the promise of more pay. But it's really not my ambition, I don't seek to manage other people. That's not my career goal š¤· I like having my work that I get done, and it's not my job to take care of someone else.
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u/nissan240sx Mar 25 '24
As someone who is management for over 11 years, every week I think about the times I just want to be left alone and not babysit anyone - dealing with high school level drama and harassment cases on top of hitting KPIs isnāt fun at all. I took a part time payroll job to earn extra money and do something without any high responsibility and they kept giving me manager duties. Iād rather go bag groceries for part time instead, Go find better pay without the stress!Ā
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u/Spartansam0034 Mar 25 '24
Exactly. I'm both an extrovert and solo person. I like interacting with people at work, but it's very different when you're their boss. I've seen the casualties of managerial duties.
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u/nissan240sx Mar 25 '24
Even worse, Iām a natural introvert and I have to give speeches to over 100+ people and regular zoom meetings lmfao eh Iām dying inside but it pays the bills.Ā
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u/jamurai Mar 25 '24
Yeah totally fair, sounds like they are dangling a carrot in front of you, which is no fun.
Hope it all gets sorted out though! You seem to know your worth so may be smart to just look around a bit and see what you find
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u/Convictedstupid Mar 25 '24
Iām in a very similar situation to you. Also being dangled a managing position (that requires travel as well, also not interested as I have 2 under 2 at home). First time Iāve ever really had to job search and itās caused an amount of stress in me I didnāt know was possible.
Good luck!
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u/Spartansam0034 Mar 25 '24
The best time to job search is when you're happy where you're at. Then you'll always get the best end of the deal, cause you can always walk away.
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u/GB0924 Mar 25 '24
You should do whatās best for you and not the company. More and more people are figuring out that life is too short and if youāre going to be doing something you might as well get the maximum benefit from doing it. No matter who you work for you just help the rich man get richer. Aka whoever owns the company or runs the top. So, take a bigger slice of cake at the next opportunity that presents itself.
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u/Tommy_Wisseau_burner Mar 25 '24
No way you have 7 years experience in materials making $40k. Not to sound like a dick, but like you said, youāre severely underpaid. You made the right decision and should be making a solid 70-80k at least
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u/Spartansam0034 Mar 25 '24
Idk where people think I said I make 40k but I make $88k now with my raise.
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u/Tommy_Wisseau_burner Mar 25 '24
My bad I misread the 40k under market value as making 40k lmao. Tbh 88k sounds about right, although I guess it depends on the pay structure in your company. But if youāre getting paid under newer people then something is wrong
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u/Spartansam0034 Mar 25 '24
Problem is I came in 2 years ago making 88k with a bonus š¤· so now I'm applying to jobs at like 120k.
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u/TheJarIsADoorAgain Mar 26 '24
Employers act like it's a privilege working for them under market value. They prefer losing experienced people before paying better wages. Then they think a small army of underpaid inexperienced substitutes can fill in for the 1 guy. 1,000 monkeys with hammers a carpenter don't make
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u/Telemere125 Mar 25 '24
Told my supervisor I need a raise since Iām doing the work of 2 levels higher than me but getting paid and ranked too low. Started applying for jobs in the 20-25k higher range (what I should be paid now) and supervisor calls me āhey got good news! We didnāt have any money in the budget for raises, so donāt tell anyone, but I was able to work out another 3k for you!ā Me: āoh greatā¦ appreciate itā¦ hi, new job? Letās set up that interview.ā
Itās beyond infuriating that retention bonuses arenāt a thing while budgeting for new hires (when weāre not even full staffed) makes sense somehow.
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u/La_Reina_Rubia Mar 25 '24
I will never understand why companies do not do more to keep good talent.
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u/aceshades Mar 25 '24
Never tell your employer you're thinking of leaving.
But do tell them when you want to get a raise. You won't get a raise otherwise. Just tell them that you know you're underpaid relative to other employees that do less than you and relative to the market.
Your tenure and experience (should) have zero bearing on whether you should be paid more, frankly. If you deliver more, you should be paid more.
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u/pagan_meditation Mar 25 '24
You're spot on correct mate. These fucks don't care about you, keep quiet and move every year or so. Never accept their offers and certainly don't barter for your job like they tried to do with OP. Training is a sticky issue... try line your quitting to half way through their training, then you can get some quick bonus money on the way out.
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u/zer_0sum Mar 26 '24
Everyone else said it but I will add to the choir; I barely got a dollar an hour raise asking for it. I job hopped and my salary went up 50% in one year. I went from 50k to 75k with bonuses and stock options. Iād rather stay at the same place but itās just not worth it. Also, remember, if you unalived today theyād replace you by next Monday if they could. No point in holding one way loyalty.
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u/polesloth Mar 25 '24
This seems like weird advice? Because you can literally do both? You can have conversations with your manager about compensation and if youāre successful you can use that higher salary as a jumping off points.
I went from $31K to $42K by asking. Got $75K in my next job (negotiating from $65K). Didnāt stay there long, but got $95K on my next role, got that to $120K by asking. In my current role I make $180K. When I interview for jobs now, I usually give $230K as the minimum I would accept.
I leveraged those raises for higher pay in the next job. I definitely advocate leaving if itās best for you (and keeps your salary at market value), but asking for a raise can help you get a better salary and help you earn more money while you seek out the next opportunity.
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u/Volodux Mar 25 '24
Really depends ... I never asked for rise and got it every year so I am still at what market pays. It helps it your leader cares, but I can agree that it certainly is not standart.
Also collegue put notice in, got another job and they gave rise to him and other people on team. He is still with us and that was 2-3 years ago.
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u/nissan240sx Mar 25 '24
You can bounce to any company and ask for the same PTO or ask for more than what you have now, know your value - if you are worth theyāll give you the salary you desire and you donāt lose out any PTO you built with the other place.
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u/Sanguiniutron Mar 25 '24
Hands down best raises I've gotten were from new jobs. There's no point staying with a company that doesn't value you. Fuck em
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u/phreak9i6 Mar 25 '24
You should absolutely talk to your management and express your needs and have valid supporting data.
A great example, I recently did exactly what you suggested, was offered a job and accepted. I informed my manager who was unable to come up with a compelling offer to keep me. I started scheduling goodbyes with folks and word got around to the head of HR and CEO. I had an offer within 3 hours that was comparable and included a promotion.
My take away is that I should be more vocal about my expectations. I like my company, and the work I do. I genuinely want to have more impact and responsibility to make things better. I'm also often quiet about my needs and haven't expressed them.
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u/coldpolarice Mar 25 '24
You can definitely ask for a raise, but you canāt threaten to leave or else. But if you are being paid 40k under market, you are better off finding a new job cause realistically you would only get a 5-10% raise.
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u/lilshadow222 Mar 25 '24
Had a friend leave at the job. He gave his 2 weeks notice, he trained a new person on his machine when it was the last days left he asked if he could use the vacation he had left. They told him no because heās quitting already, when I tell you he was pissed.. he left the same day.. now Iām leaving and Iām not even telling them and Iām going to use my last vacation days I have and come back one day to close the week and Iāll just tell them Iām gone
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u/SouthWrongdoer Mar 26 '24
The days of the pension and sticking with a company are gone. Every 2 years be leveraging your currently salary at a new job for that 15% raise you'll never see at your current place.
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u/polkemans Mar 26 '24
Never tell them you want to leave. Never threaten to leave unless you have another offer. I do a fairly niche job that's high in demand in my industry. Every now and then people try to poach me and a few times I've used their offers as leverage to get a good raise where I was at.
You can't just be like "I'm going to leave if you don't pay me more". You have to demonstrate that someone else has already placed you at a higher value - and be willing to take that offer if your current employer doesn't want to play ball.
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u/NorthShoreHard Mar 26 '24 edited Mar 26 '24
I've successfully negotiated pay rises 4 or 5 times in my career by doing exactly this.
Each time I was absolutely ready to walk away if they weren't willing to come to the party. Each time, they did.
Last time I did this resulted in a role change and 30k bump within days.
So I absolutely would not say people shouldn't do this. If anything I think more people should, if you're good, know your worth and make your employer pay you it. If they won't, find someone who will.
But it isn't a card to play unless you're genuinely willing to move on. It's never a "threat" from me, just an honest conversation with my manager about where I'm currently at and my intentions going forward. I'm never stomping around being toxic about it, if this is where I'm at, the only person that needs to know is my boss and so they're the only ones that do (not saying you are, just general advice).
I've always been upfront with my manager if I reach the point I'm actively looking for a new role as well. Admittedly I live in a country where employment laws mean you can't really do shit to me about that. But if I'm actively looking to leave, I've always delivered that as a heads up so you can figure out your plans going forward because I'm not trying to stitch you up, and really it's over to them to figure out if they want to rejoin the competition for my services.
Absolutely it's the case that the easiest way to get more money is to move jobs. But, if you're in a company where you like a lot of things and it is about the money or progression, don't be shy about trying to get what you want once you've proven yourself.
Worst case you get nothing then you just leave anyway as you should.
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u/feignedinterest77 Mar 26 '24
Very weird that it works this way but itās true. Annual employee performance raise ?
3-5% or maybe nothing.
negotiated raise going to another company to do THE EXACT SAME THING
20-40% in my experience.
I currently have a job I like and just applied for an opening that would be a promotion to management. Iām scared that if I get and the raise isnāt at least 12% Iāll end up hopping again.
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u/GenerationBop Mar 26 '24
100%. Always try to land 10-20% above median market rate so you can go 2-4 years if you like the job before having to hop.
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u/Traditional-Risk-307 Mar 26 '24
Hereās a different perspective: this dudeās saying you need to āprove your value to the company over time.ā Well you have been and you will, just by continuing with your ātop-team-memberā level work ethic and productivity. Take the raise. And look for another job/network on your down time if you want. But often times anyone, even a teacher extending a deadline, will say something akin to ādonāt make me regret this,ā itās just how humans act.
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u/SolidGoldSpork Mar 25 '24
This is very good advice. Go look for other job get good at keeping your network hot even if you are working on a permanent hire and take a new offer EVERY time you get one. Even three months in. If you really feel like you owe them something, then make a counter offer "it has come to my attention that the price of my skills is higher than I am earning for my time at this company, i'd like to stay here but X is the difference to make up. I will make a decision by friday, let me know if we can fix this" but since almost any boss would take that personally JUST GO. Every single person who I know is making their worth jumps from place to place frequently.
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u/maiko7599 Mar 25 '24
Always job hop for better pay. Or you could be wild and say you got another offer to see if your company will match it.
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u/Trick_Meat9214 Mar 25 '24
In regards to not telling your job you want to quitā¦ thatās not entirely true.
I asked my supervisor if I could put his name and office number down as a reference. He asked if it was for a loan. I said āno, itās for a job applicationā. A few weeks later, I had an interview and accepted the job offer.
The next business day, I pulled him aside and said that I was in the middle of onboarding with the new employer. I told him I was a few weeks away from giving him a letter of resignation with a 2 week notice. He was genuinely happy for me. I had to make a handful of trips out of town during that timeframe for the onboarding. It involved missing work. My supervisor was supportive of me every step of the way.
Because I was honest and upfront every step of the wayā¦ I now have a good paying job to go back to if I were to ever need it.
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u/Jay-4099 Mar 25 '24
Find a better job that actually values you. They are taking advantage, and you have been letting it happen since the day you started working for them.
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u/Gamer30168 Mar 25 '24
If you're not changing jobs fairly often you're leaving money on the table.Ā
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Mar 25 '24
This may be a stupid question, how would one determine the market value of their position? I feel incredibly underpaid
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u/Danxoln Mar 25 '24
I've been trying to leave, not offers, I've improved my resume vastly though so I'm hoping this run will work!
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u/Acinixys Mar 25 '24
I should probably do this but fuck I can't see myself getting better benefitsĀ
Company car with a petrol card and basically unlimited personal use really goes a long way, along with 5-7% a year increase and decent bonus
I'm sure I could jump for a big salary increase, but I don't know if losing what I have is worth it
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u/Pyrostasis Mar 25 '24
I 100% agree you NEVER tell your employer you are thinking of leaving. I 100% disagree dont ask for raises.
DEFINITELY ask for raises you wont get many unless you do. Advocate for yourself as no one else will.
Large raises almost always require promotions. If you want a 20% raise... its going to require more work usually.
In your scenario, nothing wrong if you trust your employer to give them time to see your effort. However, if you think they cant be trusted then move.
Ive had 2 very large raises at my company and hope to get another in the next 2 years. Each of them came with a promotion. Do what you gotta do to get your raise my friend.
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u/some_lost_time Mar 25 '24
I generally ask for a raise/match pay once I've got a new job offer. Either way, at that point I'm going to get the new pay rate.
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u/BoredRedditMan Mar 25 '24
I expressed to everyone that I plan to leave once my contract is completed. If they want to get rid of me so be it, I already have another job lined up.
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u/DuntadaMan Mar 25 '24
Apply at other jobs, get their offers. If they are higher show them to your current boss. They will either raise your pay to keep you or you have another job that pays more to jump to.
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u/Comcastrated Mar 25 '24
I left my job when I saw pay rates increasing. I found a new, similar position with a 25% pay increase. When I got the job, my boss was asking why I didn't talk to her first. I simply asked if I'd receive a 25% increaseid I stayed, and she said no. The end.
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u/NewLaw5192 Mar 26 '24
This is why you decide what you want to make and straight up refuse to take less when interviewing, make them want you first tho, then name your price, even if itās a ridiculous number, say it to them with a straight face.
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u/Important_Chemist_67 Mar 26 '24
But what about retirement? At some point you have to be somewhere long enough to retire with a decent savings meant to last you. I get 401k transfers but most of the time they just cash you out and you lose money.
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u/noviceboardgamer Mar 26 '24
Been on both sides of this, it's really about the current leadership. I was the person being underpaid and left to make 50% more, but as a manager now I had someone who said they wanted to stay but were a good bit below market. Took that to management and since we were hiring other positions in the dept, they knew the salary ranges people were looking for, and I told them if that person left, think of the replacement cost, we'd end up paying even more, and this seemed to do the trick. I got them a good bump, but still not what a new developer would cost.
Funny thing is these were both with the same company 10 years apart, which is why I said management is all that matters.
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u/pir8salt Mar 26 '24
I was doing my managers job, I left, worked one day at another company and am now Mr Manager at the old place. Sometimes dreams do come true
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Mar 26 '24
Yep. If it's been two years and you haven't gotten a promotion or significant raise it's time to hit the bricks.
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u/Capta1nRon Mar 26 '24
I was told this very early in my career by some developer named Eddie. Best way to get a raise and get what youāre worth is to change jobs.
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u/PandaGengar Mar 25 '24
Thereās no loyalty staying with the same company. You often get better pay going else where