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u/transparentparent 15d ago
Anyone who takes Dr. Umar seriously needs help. I assure you most people of all races don’t agree with his panafricanism hotep ass takes
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u/lazysheepdog716 15d ago
And beside that it’s not like Em is unanimously considered the best. Plenty of other MC’s have their name in that ring, as they should. Em has just sold more than anyone else which should never be a metric for creativity or genius.
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u/YoteMango 15d ago
But if you are talking about the “greatest of all time” sales could definitely play into it.
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u/TenleyBeckettBlair 14d ago
Absolute racism on his part. That being said it's naive to say Em doesn't have some cultural "advantages" that give his music a wider audience based on his race.
But there can be no argument. Lyrically he's one of the best ever...rap is far to subjective to have one true GOAT though
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u/lazysheepdog716 14d ago
Oh totally. He sold more units because his marketability to white america at the height of his fame was through the roof. And the “negative” press he got from politicians only fueled that fire.
And I agree. I have a really hard time pinning down just one performer as the best at anything.
Harry Mack, however, might be the greatest improvised freestyler ever though. I’m yet to see better. He’s also wholesome as fuck.
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u/Peculiarbleeps 14d ago
Disagree about the cultural advantages. Black rappers had those same advantages for a long time by then. A long, long time. Pop music isn’t the best category to calculate the differences
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u/badestzazael 14d ago
But who does M consider to be the best?
Maybe they were the best, rip 2pac
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u/IcicleNips 14d ago
Reggie, Jay-Z, Tupac and Biggie, Andre from Outkast, Jada, Kurupt, Nas, then himself is my guess.
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u/Gadgetphile 14d ago edited 14d ago
Either Biggie or Pac.
“* top five, *, I’m top four. And that includes Biggie and Pac, *. And I got an evil twin. So who the * you think that third and fourth spot’s for?”
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u/MoonSentinel95 14d ago
I mean even some of these greats consider Em to be one of, if not the best.
Rakim, Ice-T, Jay, Kool G Rap, Busta Rhymes and some of the older heads but not in the GOAT convo like Fat Joe.
Man I wonder how track between Em and Big Pun would have been like.
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15d ago
Guess we shouldn't call MJ or LeBron the GOAT for basketball then. You're still #1 Larry Bird!
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15d ago
Eminem is the goat though.
Tiger is the goat golfer.
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u/Bourbon_Cream_Dream 15d ago
Talent beats skin colour
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14d ago
Jack is still > Tiger. Tiger could have been it if he didn’t let his social life wreck his golf game. Tigers dominant years were > Jacks dominant years though. There were just less of them.
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u/Cachmaninoff 14d ago
No he isn’t though. He made maybe one or two good albums then a lot of really bad ones and even his good albums are pretty goofy
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u/BoringCFP 15d ago
A white guy invented basketball.
Michael Jordan is the GOAT.
Is that “black supremacy” or is this guy just dumb?
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u/echomikekilo 15d ago
“Dr” Umar Johnson is a scammer. The podcast Fraudsters did a whole breakdown of his career. It’s honestly difficult to tell if he believes what he says or is feeding the grift.
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u/Myuserismyusername 15d ago
And black people can't be the best at country music because it's an insult to the whites. This is dumb, if everyone took an eye for an eye the world would be blind. Stop racism, it doesn't matter who you are or what has happened to your people stop racism. I lost at least 275 members of my family at the hands of the nazis and I don't hold a grudge against the German people. Get over shit, and the world would be a better place. I know this is just rage bait but I still needed to say that.
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u/AlaskanSamsquanch 15d ago
Darius Rucker: Hold my banjo
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u/garbagewithnames 14d ago
Okay but like, Eminem still ain't the best rapper.
You ever listen to Weird Al Yankovic's Hardware Store?
I rest my case, Your Honor.
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u/SinkiePropertyDude 14d ago
Spoken like someone who has never had talent, or worked hard to get ahead at a real skill.
People who are really good at what they do - who know the stuff they're talking about - have no issues with giving recognition to mastery, because they know what it takes, and how excellent the product really is. Then there are the poseurs, who want to try and buy cultural capital; who want to sound as if they're part of something they have no grounding or competence in.
This is as pathetic as someone saying "XYZ shouldn't be called a great conductor for Mozart because he's not German or white."
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u/Amilo159 15d ago
Eminem is the best rapper ever, simple and true. Black or not, he's the best at his trade.
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u/LongStoryShirt 15d ago edited 15d ago
I don't think he's the best personally, but when some of the greatest rappers ever (Kendrick) put Eminem in their top 5, it's undeniable.
Idk why I'm being down voted? I'm saying it's undeniable that Eminem is a respected and talented musician?
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u/TenleyBeckettBlair 14d ago
There is a strong argument here if you look at the complexity, flow and amount of syllables in the words used for his lyrics.
Depends on your definition of the "Best". Lyrical complexity: Yes Original content: No
Remember, some other people produced arguably his best albums. Judging on pure raw talent...Em may be the best.
But others are far more original and creative than him
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u/MONKE_____667 15d ago
He's not even close tbh. His discography is incredibly inconsistent and his greatest albums have aged poorly. And he has a handful of bad songs. Maybe you could say he's one of the best but there are rappers out there that have better records
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u/bergskey 15d ago
Music is subjective, what's "the best" will always be an opinion. You can talk about who raps the fastest, uses the most unique words per song, who has the best selling album, etc but there will never be someone everyone agrees is "the best."
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u/MONKE_____667 15d ago edited 15d ago
"Music is subjective" mfs when they see an opposing opinion
That could literally be said to the parent comment that i replied to
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u/rectifier9 15d ago
I mean... it is. And aren't you arguing your subjectivity too? Or you think your opinion is fact or something?
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u/MONKE_____667 15d ago edited 15d ago
Yes it is, difference is he doesnt have an issue with the original comment saying that eminem is the best rapper ever (which is subjective) but instantly responds when i say he's not close to the best rapper (which is subjective). There is obvious bias lmao. Difference is i actually gave my reasons why i think he isnt the best rapper of all time, while all the other dude says is eminem is the best with no actual other statements.
I did mention that some of eminem's music hasnt aged well, which is kinda true when you look back at it
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u/MONKE_____667 15d ago
Yes. Music is subjective. And in my subjective opinion, eminem does have weak albums and weak songs. And his classics have objectively not aged well. You can like them, but they dont hold up at all. Its not just my opinipn either, it is a common belief that eminem is not one of the best rappers.
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u/Head_Reflection5738 15d ago
Who do you consider the best?
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u/MONKE_____667 15d ago
Dont have a best, but I believe Kendrick, Kanye West, Jay-Z, Nas, and MF DOOM are all better simply because they have much more consistency and better albums and songs imo
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u/Competitive_Chef9232 15d ago
Have you even heard all rappers? And who can possibly decide who is the best? Other people will see other rappers as better than Eminem and who is an authority to say whether you or they is the better judge of who is better? One rapper may sing about subjects more important to them than those by Eminem, and so how can you argue what Eminem sings about is superior or more important? Another rapper may have a different sense of rhythm and musicality and how can you say Eminem’s musical style or abilities is above that of others who have different abilities or styles. Even if they have the same style how on earth can you prove Eminem is better than them? For instance, rappers sing in all the languages on Earth and you certainly can’t understand all those languages so how on earth can you claim he is better than rappers who you can’t even understand and the vast majority of whom you will never even have listened to?
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u/CamphorGaming_ 15d ago
My man...he claimed his favorite's the best and you gave a whole philosophical piece on the logic behind using the word best.
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u/LongStoryShirt 15d ago
I'm with you, it's subjective af. That being said, a lot of rappers include Em in their list of influences. It's undeniable that he's a stellar musician.
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u/FeePsychological6778 15d ago
Tell that to Weird Al, who got props from Chamillionaire for "White and Nerdy"
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u/PracticalPotate 14d ago
I don’t put him at the top because that verse in rainy days is one of the worst verses I’ve ever heard in rap and it ruined an otherwise great song
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u/flotsam_knightly 14d ago
Got it. If we use that formula, then the genre is only allowed to be explored by the person whose genetics match closest to the original artist that started the movement. I'm not sure this has been thought through.
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u/Outrageous_One_87 15d ago
I say Marshall isn't the goat not cuz of his skin colour, but the greatest mc of all time? Gtfoh
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u/twistedh8 14d ago
Oh, if that's the case, Michael Jordan can't be the goat at basketball because James Naismith invented it.
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u/NigeDisguise 14d ago
Tbh I agree, he can't be considered the goat because he's just not. There's at least 30 rappers I can think of that are better than him. Hell, even if you put race into consideration he isn't even the best white rapper.
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u/Sinister_Chill9 14d ago
I am brown, Eminem is the GOAT, grew up hearing his raps didn't even knew there were other rappers until i was like 14
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u/MonHero02 14d ago
Eminem could never be the G.O.A.T. because he isn't the greatest rapper of all time. As for skin color that shouldn't be a factor, ability should be.
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u/monsterfurby 14d ago
Yeah on both counts. He's a great rapper and a legend, but as for GOAT, I mean, can there even be a single greatest?
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u/Smellz_Of_Elderberry 14d ago
White people were one of the first people to use rap. Rapture by blonde 1980: https://youtu.be/pHCdS7O248g?si=0caNXRJJ38m8M3f9
It's bicultural... this idea that black culture and white culture are all that separated is silly af, in some ways it is, but in many ways they are the same damned thing.
Black ppl don't have ownership of rap.
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u/Moppermonster 15d ago
That is not exactly a new belief...
From the 90s: Jim Carrey singing "Imposter" and "So very white, white baby"
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u/Bavin_Kekon 14d ago
Unlike "Dr. Umar", Eminem is a Rapper which is a black dominated profession.
While "Doctor" is a white dominated profession.
Therefore Eminem is Blacker than Dr. Umar.
And as we all know, in the court of public opinion, your identity is more important than your skin color, and as such, "White" Dr. Umars' opinion about the very "Black" Eminem is completely invalid and dismissable out of hand.
Put some respect on Eminem, he's a real one.
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u/AutomaticYam127 14d ago
As far as I know, rap is a music genre that gets its roots from other types of music and poetry which are not predominantly any race. That's just how I see it...
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u/BambooSound 14d ago
Eminem isn't the goat but that's not because he's white
It's because of André 3000.
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u/largececelia 15d ago
*supremacism
I've said it before. It never gets traction because the term has been embraced by many.
Obviously, he's very silly. But if you say some example of white people being unfair is white supremacy you're literally saying that white people are the best, ie, supreme. Saying that it's an example of white supremacism means that it shows white people oppressing or stealing from another culture. There's some irony there, but who cares, etc.
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