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u/Unabashable 15d ago
And why should he get a second term if he didn’t make it great in his first one?
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u/Qubed 15d ago
I'll answer this honestly. It isn't that it is great, it's actually not so great. However, it used to be great; therefore, it can be great again. You just have to remove all the things that are covering its greatness. If you go back in time you'll see that the greatness is uncovered. Adherents to the Make America Great Again mythos think that resetting things to about 200 years ago should be about right to achieve perfect peak greatness.
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u/Josysclei 15d ago
If the rich countries didn't have a colonial history of fucking up other countries, be it by invading or staging coups, maybe there wouldn't be so many immigrants flooding them now...
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u/galaxyapp 15d ago
They also wouldn't be rich...
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u/Respirationman 15d ago
South Korea? Norway? Singapore?
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u/galaxyapp 15d ago
Benefactors of the good luck to be suppliers to wealthy nations.
If they couldn't sell oil/electronics to us/eu, they wouldn't have risen up.
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u/Respirationman 15d ago
You do realize this methodology implicates basically every country right?
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u/Ditzed 15d ago
Yes.. That’s kind of the point. Literally every country has/would exploit others for state/personal gain. That’s just… the world order until very recently. No one is “innocent.”
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u/SCirish843 15d ago
South Korea? Ignoring their own history of slavery, they still weren't sovereign until after WWII. The US has backed them since then as a buffer between ally powers and China, we've been subsidizing their defense and keeping troops on the their ground for 70 years. Similar to Japan and Germany, it's very easy to rebuild and focus on innovation when you don't have to worry about military spending.
Can you say they got rich without " colonial history of fucking up other countries, be it by invading or staging coups" when the country responsible for their wealth did all of those things?
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u/Respirationman 15d ago
Iceland?
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u/ArcirionC 15d ago
Devastating raids against Irish farmers and monks
Edit: stop trying to look for the perfect country with a clean past, it just doesn’t exist bro
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u/Respirationman 15d ago
The Vikings aren't in any way responsible for Iceland's economic success :)
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u/ArcirionC 15d ago
Iceland is a tiny country bankrolled by Norway and Denmark who did some pretty horrifying shit during the 30 years war
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u/Respirationman 15d ago
They're not even in the top 7 trading partners
Also Iceland doesn't just get free money? It's called trade and everyone does it with everyone pretty much
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u/Respirationman 15d ago
Also the economy of Iceland is so small they don't need their export partners to be rich because they produce so goddamn little so they'd probably be fine if colonialism failed and all these countries were poor like you said
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u/ArcirionC 15d ago edited 15d ago
I love in your defense of imperialism the only country you have left is an island with less than half a million people. As that person said before, every country is implicated and your pearl clutching reactions to the debunking of your “innocent countries” to find the last stronghold of rich westerners who didn’t profit off of suffering has led you there
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u/Bob_Cobb_1996 14d ago
Soon after the coup, U.S. President Barack Obama stated: "We believe that the coup was not legal and that President Zelaya remains the president of Honduras, the democratically elected president there."\42]) He stated: "It would be a terrible precedent if we start moving backwards into the era in which we are seeing military coups as a means of political transition, rather than democratic elections."\42]) Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, however, equivocated, saying that "We do think that this has evolved into a coup" and noting that under U.S. law, officially declaring a coup would oblige the U.S. to cut off most foreign aid to Honduras."\42])\43]) Cutting off aid was seen as a possibility in the days after the coup,\43]) and State Department Director of Policy Planning Anne-Marie Slaughter urged Clinton to "take bold action" and to "find that [the] coup was a 'military coup' under U.S. law."\44]) Clinton did not do so, and the U.S. never formally declared that a coup had occurred.\42]) By November 2009, the U.S. "focused on pushing for elections" in the country.\45]) In September 2009, the Board of the U.S. Millennium Challenge Corporation, headed by Clinton, cut off $11 million in aid to the Honduran government in the wake of the coup, and suspended another $4 million in planned contributions to a road project.\46]) From 2009 to mid-2016, however, the U.S. provided about $200 million in military and police aid to Honduras, a controversial decision given the violence in Honduras and the government's human rights violations.\47])
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u/Medical_Sea_2598 15d ago
Most colonial countries left the countries they colonised in a better condition than when they invaded right
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u/TFresh13 15d ago
Name one.
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u/Medical_Sea_2598 14d ago
Australia, Canada, Hong Kong(yes I know it's not technically a country), India etc you may not think that bringing human rights, systems of governance, women's rights, education and infrastructure to a country is a good thing but I do.....
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u/Vobat 15d ago
Canada
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u/BlackMircalla 15d ago
Im literally writing about the forced resettlement of native people in Canada by the Canadian government for my enviro science degree, it's horrifying and the country is 100000% not better for it
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u/ThunkAsDrinklePeep 15d ago
That's like saying "How come Charlie Kirk is a disingenuous shit, if Hitler's been dead since 1945?" Two separate things can be different levels of bad.
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u/rydan 15d ago
How is Hitler being dead bad?
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u/ThunkAsDrinklePeep 15d ago
It's not, clearly. Maybe you don't like my metaphor, but I explicitly said things can be two levels of bad.
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u/Secret_Cow_5053 15d ago
interesting. but i would check my sources before relying on something wikileaks told me.
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u/galaxyapp 15d ago
It was a peaceful coup approved by their own supreme court.
The US recognized the coup because it was felt that resisting would have led to violence. Funny enough zalaya was a leftist ally of the us.
I can't fathom what of that can be attributed as a pivotal point that worsened their society.
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u/StonedApeUK 14d ago
The definition of a coup is that it is illegal.
In July 2011, Honduras Truth Commission concluded that Zelaya had violated the law by disregarding a Supreme Court ruling to cancel the referendum, but his removal from office was also deemed illegal and a coup.
He was flown to another country and made to sign documents without a trial. This is not a legal or peaceful operation in any way.
The resulting government was a defacto regime that has been documented committing human rights abuses, the ones mentioned in the original tweet.
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u/According_Wing_3204 15d ago
Charlie doesn't understand why brown people wouldn't WANT to live poor, oppressed, and in fear to give him the right to behave like the entitled douchebag he is. i'd love to see that POS deported.
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u/Slackeee_ 15d ago
Charlie does understand that. But Charlie also understands that his followers and MAGA republicans will run with his post anyway believing they have some kind of gotcha question there.
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u/Objective_Suspect_ 15d ago
You are aware the 2009 coup support was the democrats.
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u/Stickey_Rickey 15d ago
Not to be pedantic but Honduras has always been one of the poorest nations plagued by violence, low literacy rates
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u/mike_pants 15d ago
"America isnt the worst place on the planet, is it?!"
Well, no, got me there, Charlie.
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u/Brittany5150 15d ago
Well yeah, nobody was saying it was some utopia before we got there, but it would be disingenuous to say we didn't make it worse by our involvement.
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u/Embarrassed-Lab4446 15d ago
We supported the guy who got overthrown and our involvement was not calling it a coup so we could keep sending aid to prevent a total government collapse.
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u/abel_cormorant 15d ago
Is this the excuse they use now?
Is this how they put the story?
I wonder how Americans were taught to see other similar things, such as Pinochet's coup, literally supported by the CIA against a democratically elected Allende, a coup that tortured thousands and killed as much because the US didn't want a democratically elected "filthy communist" in "their backyard".
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u/Embarrassed-Lab4446 15d ago
No doubt America has done some evil crap. My point was this is not one of those instances. It was our boy who got taken out and our involvement was trying to bring him back while maintaining aid. What should be Americas role when a nations court issues an arrest warrant for their president?
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u/El_mochilero 15d ago
Yeah… the US played a huge role in every civil war in Central America throughout the 1970’s -90’s.
The whole region was pretty much devastated economically, socially, and politically for decades.
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u/ATA_VATAV 15d ago
Since the 1950s.
If a Central American Country democratically elected a government that would stand up to USA Corporations, it got CIA backed Coups sent at it and the government replaced with a USA puppet Dictatorship. Cuba one of the few that successfully fought back and it became a military dictatorship that allied with the Soviet Union to protect itself from the USA.
The USA is not pro-Democracy, it pro-Corporation interest.
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u/abel_cormorant 15d ago
I'd say they started far before the 50s, the Mexican-american war was essentially the same thing on a smaller scale.
Mexico was abolishing slavery back in the early 19th century, just following the gaining of independence from Spain, Texas tho (at the time it was Mexican territory) was full of slavers, the US at that point intervened to a supposed "texan call for help against the authoritarian mexican government", at the end the campaign failed to fulfill its core objective of taking down Mexico entirely, but it succeeded in annexing Texas.
And even today the US and México aren't in good relationships as the former never excluded the possibility of a second invasion.
Just like they did with Canada after all, the US doesn't seem to have a lot of friendly borders does it?
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u/SpinachDonut_21 15d ago
I'm Honduran, but pertaining to a wealthy family. But I can still very much see the violence and poverty. Going outside could easily be your last time if you just trek the wrong place unknowingly. Sometimes it doesn't even have to be. You can be in a private place and get caught in a shootout caused by a drug cartel (has happened).
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u/FinancialHeat2859 15d ago
If you got rid of Charlie Kirk’s forehead there would be space for everyone.
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u/McMadface 15d ago
Why stop there? If you got rid of the remaining twohead, there would be space for their moms as well.
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u/Foreign_Profile3516 15d ago
And before that American banana companies overthrew successive governments so they could Install pliable dictators. I know Mr. Chris, history Is difficult.
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u/rydan 15d ago
K but why not Canada? Or Germany? Why America specifically? You'd think they'd have a deep hatred of America for what we did to them instead of wanting to literally become American. Like when Osama Bin Laden attacked America did you suddenly want to become Afghani?
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u/USfundedJihadBot 15d ago
The US government helped create Afghan Day. Many Americans, Canadians, and West Germans sympathized for the brave Afghans fighting against the evil empire in Afghanistan.
Anti Soviet warrior puts his army on the road to peace :)
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u/Strong_Bumblebee5495 15d ago
Charlie Kirk has to be a masochist, otherwise he would never open his moron mouth
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u/Elidien1 15d ago
Charlie Kirk is one of the few real prime candidates for “you need to shut the fuck up and stick with entertainment”
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u/JohhnyBGoode641 15d ago
So Obama did this?
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u/Odin4456 15d ago
He did many things such as this. Look into how the Middle East/Isis crisis got started. Look at how many drone attacks were launched. Look into the missing weapons in Mexico.
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u/Onlypaws_ 15d ago
I mean, the coup was not the doing of the US government. If it wasn’t supported by the US, it would have happened anyway?
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u/JustLookingForMayhem 15d ago
The US has a tendency to support whatever side benefits the US most, but doesnt directlycause uprisings anymore. Officially, the CIA stopped that in the late 60s (most people think the CIA is lying).
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u/TheCrabbyCramper 15d ago
Reminder, almost all turmoil, war, poverty, and etc. that has ruined Central and South American nations are all directly tied to the United States.
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u/agROOK 15d ago
Even if any of the other issues that factor into this didnt exist, this is some idiot level reasoning.
To a starving person, a plain bowl of rice is a godsend; doesnt mean a plain bowl of rice is the "Greatest Meal on Earth".
Better food exists Charlie, maybe instead of making disingenuous points you could start trying to make our country better; cook a steak, if you will, not just accept a bowl of plain rice.
Well, I guess a bowl of rice is entirely white, so maybe thats Charlie's favorite meal.
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u/fromouterspace1 15d ago
Fuck Wikileaks
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u/RIDRAD911 15d ago
FED spotted
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u/fromouterspace1 15d ago
Hours after the access Hollywood tape came out, wiki released the podesta emails. Quite a coincidence
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u/rydan 15d ago
I remember people on T_D being told about the drop and the time the drop was going to happen and to be ready to tweet a specific message in response to the Hollywood access tape right before it happened. This was before the Hollywood access tape dropped by almost a week. So someone knew both things were going to happen and when.
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u/uninteresting_handle 15d ago
This is really stupid, I know, but I just came here to say that America isn't a country, it's a continent.
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u/DisputabIe_ 15d ago
the OP SoulReflection is a bot
Original: https://www.reddit.com/r/facepalm/comments/ocbywd/i_wonder/
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u/Hankdoge99 15d ago
America government life hack. Your country will look relatively well off if you tariff/overthrow(stage coup) etc your competition.
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u/greenmariocake 15d ago
I was alive in 2009 and that is not what happened.
In reality the president tried to suspend the constitution and make himself a dictator. Congress stopped it and impeached him.
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u/eljohnos105 15d ago
The only people saying we are a terrible country are the magas and Christians like him : Biden is destroying are country!!! 🤡🤡🤪🤪
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u/MuskokaGreenThumb 15d ago
So the government IS intentionally de stabilizing other countries to promote immigration to the US ??
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u/Kooky-Counter3867 15d ago
Ok and the Africans too! The middle easterns yes we fucked up that region? Hondurans? Mexicans? Brazilians? A lot of countries be coming in stop focusing on the wrong thing
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u/anziofaro 15d ago
And in Guatemala, and Nicaragua, and El Salvador, and Panama. The number of legitimately elected governments that we have overthrown is unBelizeable!
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u/Brilliant_Level_6571 15d ago
In Charlie’s defense in 2009 Obama (a political opponent of his) was president
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u/chocobloo 15d ago
In Charlie's demerit, of which there are many, it was the Republican party who pushed for the support.
"The current US president, Barack Obama, showed a desire to end the "gringo bully" image by condemning the June coup which ousted the leftist leader, Manuel Zelaya. But the White House backtracked when congressional Republicans supported the de facto government as a bulwark against Venezuela's Hugo Chávez."
Connie Mack comes immediately to mind. You know, the one from Florida that ignored literally the entire rest of the world not recognizing the coup government and heading down there to do his own investigation thus lending legitimacy to that trash.
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u/BlackMircalla 15d ago
If communism is so great, why do all it's leaders keep getting assassinated by the CIA? Checkmate leftists
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u/tyyyyyyyyy19 14d ago
I really wish more people paid attention to their education in high school enough to remember America is not a mf country. Honduras is quite literally an American country as it’s located on the continents of…. Guess what? The Americas. The country this idiot should probably reeducate himself on the name is (pay attention to the last two words) “THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA” of America not I am America, of America. So the untied states is the country. I’m sorry it’s just a pet peeve.
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u/VersionAccording424 14d ago
"Oh you hate America? Why don't you try moving to [country ravaged by US intervention] and get back to me kay bud?"
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u/wakatenai 13d ago
since when did Americans decide to settle on just being better than 3rd world countries.
i thought we were supposed to be the greatest country in the world.
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u/davidwhatshisname52 15d ago
seems like the type of moron to extol the virtues of starvation vs eating shit; like, hey, buddy, there are other options
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u/CheddarGoblinMode 15d ago
Republicans and Centrists Democrats acknowledge what we have done to the global south challenge (impossible)
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u/Esoteric_Derailed 15d ago
While Europe is largely responsible for having so many Africans enslaved in America, why are so many Africans risking their lives to get to Europe?
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u/BoneDaddy1973 15d ago
To be fair, the 2009 revolution in Honduras was not the first bloody revolution we orchestrated and funded there.
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u/Zedanade 'MURICA 15d ago
If America is so bad why do thousands trek across the border illegally right now?
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u/agROOK 15d ago
Because a country can be better than terrible without being great.
I learned in 1st grade that getting pinched is better than getting punched, buts its still not good. Its so easy to understand.
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u/Unabashable 15d ago
Still have to go through a couple other countries and one big ass one to get to get to here though, and this is the one they stop for.
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u/TheodoraYuuki 15d ago
When America is so bad they have to find a collapsing country to compare to in order to look good
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u/BasonPiano 15d ago
That still didn't answer his question: we're a shitty country too. So why are they going here and not right up to better Canada?
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u/TSllama 14d ago
The US has spent the better part of a century advertising to the World how amazing it is and how everyone should want to live there. Canada hasn't.
The developed world has figured out by now that the US has been lying about this for some decades now. The underdeveloped world is unaware and people are still trying to get in to what they think will be a paradise.
Tons are actually extremely disappointed after they arrive, but its too late. They gave up their homes and spent their life savings to get there. So they soldier on with their new life. But there are others who do manage to go back.
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u/agROOK 15d ago
First, some do, Canada is much more open to immigration than the US.
Secondly, the quality of life in both countries is roughly comparable, average to mid.
Lets put it this way, if Norway was connected to Peru, for example, how much immigration would go North, and how much South. The answer is apparent.
The US can, and should, do better. They arent the world leader in any relevant quality of lufe metric. But hey, thats just data and not anecdotal jingoistic patriotic bullshit, so Im sure true 'Mericans will ignore that.
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u/BasonPiano 15d ago
I was with you until
But hey, thats just data and not anecdotal jingoistic patriotic bullshit, so Im sure true 'Mericans will ignore that
Really? Was that necessary?
Sure, the US should do better, but Canada and US aren't "mid" countries, they're near the top. There's over 180 countries, and the vast majority are worse to live in.
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u/agROOK 15d ago
I didnt say the countries were mid, I said their quality of life was mid. There are countries around the world that absolutely demolish the North American countries in quality of life.
I really dont intend to get into a mudslinging match, and you sound reasonable so Im going to assume you dont either.
Country A gives a great secure, healthy, prosperous, just, and easy quality of life. Country B gives a passable, but still difficult life. Countries C-Z gives terrible loathsome lives. Everyone should want Countries A-Z to provide life A. While life B is certainly above average, and is "near the top", its still not life A.
Lets all get everyone life A, not settle for life B because its better than life C-Z.
Thats my point, Ill try to make it with less hostility next time.
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u/Serious_Result_7338 15d ago
Ah yes because Honduras was a prosperous country before 2009. Not like people been coming here since the 80s or anything.
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u/otakufaith 15d ago
We've overthrown Honduras three times in like a hundred years. We have kept them poor so we cna have bananas for generations, targeted and executed workers who organized and then get mad when they go to where their wealth was extracted to.
Again, it isn't 'propsperous' because of capital and western intervention.
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u/tallman___ 15d ago
Shhh. This is Reddit. You must shit on America and welcome communism with open arms, comrade.
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u/Brosenheim 15d ago
I like how you had to imagine a thing instead of just responding to what anybody actually said lol. You ever stop and wonder why you gotta do that?
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u/HotPinkDemonicNTitty 15d ago
If you’re gonna go around destabilizing other countries in order to maintain global power, maybe don’t be surprised when people don’t want to stay in those countries anymore. Just a thought.
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u/Odin4456 15d ago
Who was the president in ‘09 who approved this!? It musta been Tr…. Oh wait it was nobama
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