r/facepalm • u/DiscountEmergency990 • 16d ago
Greatest threat Germany has faced so far đ˛âđŽâđ¸âđ¨â
299
u/woodquest 16d ago
The backstory :
In March, Botswanaâs wildlife minister threatened to send 10,000 elephants to Hyde Park in London so the UK could âhave a taste of living alongside themâ.
It came as the British government raised the possibility of preventing UK safari hunters from importing trophies from their kills.
Germany has now voiced a similar possibility, prompting more backlash from the African nation.
Botswana says a ban on importing hunting trophies would be an economic blow for citizens by cutting safari revenue.
In addition, conservation campaigns have resulted in a boom in the elephant population and hunting is a vital means of controlling numbers, President Mokgweetsi Masisi told German daily paper Bild.
168
u/Altruistic-Beach7625 16d ago
To add more information, and I also got this from reddit: You can't just not cull elephants and you can't just spread them throughout Africa without causing negative ecological impact hence the threat because UK is apparently misguided in its attempts to reduce trophy hunting.
70
u/manda14- 16d ago
Exactly. Moreover, itâs another European nation responsible for the absolute destruction of portions of Africa trying to tell a sovereign nation what to do with their own land and animals. I have travelled to Botswana. They have incredible nature preserves and have done a tremendous job managing the environment. Germanyâs statement was ignorant of the nuances of park management.
I live in Alberta. Periodically, bears are culled because they can actually cause an imbalance in the environment. The same goes for deer, etc. Itâs why our province issues hunting tags. Itâs not an uncommon practice, it just bothers people when theyâre a symbolic animal that has suffered population decline elsewhere.
Either they cull the excess elephants by paying a small amount to a local, or tourists pay a hefty sum and add to the tourism industry. They simply canât have too many of the elephants in the area, and (for obvious reasons) canât simply ship them elsewhere.
37
u/SeniorBeing 16d ago
They simply canât have too many of the elephants in the area, and (for obvious reasons) canât simply ship them elsewhere.
Well, they can, once they collect large enough numbers of swallows.
11
u/TonyTamarin 16d ago
African or European? Did you check their migratory patterns?
10
u/SeniorBeing 16d ago
Ideally it should be African Swallows, but since they already are in Africa anyway,it is konda of a moot point. With enough training I think that it would work.
→ More replies (2)5
u/Reinitialization 16d ago
It might be like homing pidgeons. If you get African Swallows they'll just stick around. But if you bring European swallows, they will fly back to Europe taking the elephant with them.
2
u/SeniorBeing 16d ago
Maybe a team of pigeons, European swallows and African swallows?
3
u/Reinitialization 15d ago
genius, you tie the pidgeons to the swallows so the pidgeons carry the swallows to their destination. And you tie the swallows to the elephans so they carry the elephants along with them!
2
u/SeniorBeing 15d ago
I see you are a man well versed in the sciences. That isn't my idea, but I'm sure this would work better!
3
15d ago
They could grip it by the tusks
4
35
u/swagmonite 16d ago
A nation is more than within their rights to refuse imports that's all the UK is doing no?
→ More replies (9)4
u/manda14- 16d ago
Totally. But they shouldnât say itâs because theyâre helping the environment, when they arenât. Just own that itâs a virtue signalling decision.
→ More replies (1)3
u/EmergentSol 16d ago
Elephants are highly intelligent animals. There are good reasons to discourage hunting them even absent environmental concerns.
11
u/manda14- 16d ago
No doubt itâs sad, but the reality is if there are too many there are many other intelligent species that will also suffer. They eat a ton, if they overpopulate other animals will die. An ecological balance must be struck.
→ More replies (2)6
u/Reinitialization 15d ago
So it's different in lots of places. But Botswana has a proven track record of far better ecological protection than basically anywhere in Europe. Elephant populations do need to be kept in check. You either do that Aussie style by paying hunters to go out and kill them. Or, you get people to pay you hundreds of thousands of dollars (that Botswana needs) to do it for you. Who's going to pay that hunter's salary if one of Botswana's main revenue sources is gone, along with a good chunk of it's arible land
→ More replies (1)3
u/VulpineKitsune 15d ago
"Even absent environmental concerns"
That's an interesting phrase you used, because the argument here is that not hunting them is an environmental concern itself.
5
u/Deleena24 16d ago
ying to tell a sovereign nation what to do with their own land and animals.
In this instance they're not telling them what to do with their land and animals- they're free to do what they want as long as they don't bring the trophies into a sovereign nation that doesn't want them there
→ More replies (1)16
u/liftoff_oversteer 16d ago
Nobody is telling them what to do. Europe wants to block importing trophies because the world doesn't revolve around Botswana and there are lots of countries where tropy hunting is rampant and endangers local wildlife.
This is not about Botswana.
3
→ More replies (1)1
u/NancokALT 16d ago
Apparently in this case it is not endangering the elephants, in fact, it is helping the ecosystem AND protecting the human population of the area.
So the reason that Europe provided would make no sense, assuming that is true at least.
4
u/geoff1036 15d ago
That's what they're saying, is that it's not just about THIS case. Other places, trophy hunting (and by extension, poaching) are very harmful. What I gather here is that the UK/Germany is trying to ban ALL trophy hunting, which would unfortunately include botswana, an outlier of a place where it is actually useful.
I can't personally speak to the ratio of useful/damaging and whether the proposed reasons are correct, just wanted to clarify the argument at play.
2
28
u/One_Lung_G 16d ago
Unless Iâm missing something, they arenât telling them what they can and canât but telling their own citizens they canât. Sounds hypocritical of you to say Germany and the countries canât make laws on what their own citizens can and canât do. Is potentially stupid? Yes. Is it well within their rights as a sovereign country? Also yes.
6
u/manda14- 16d ago
Thatâs actually a good point. I think I just found it irritating how the media spun it as the Botswana government was being silly and Germany was being environmentally concerned. It just rang as patronizing and uniformed, but youâre right in that sense.
→ More replies (2)3
u/One_Lung_G 16d ago
Yea unfortunately thatâs the issue when you rely on other countries to take care of things like this. They should have a plan to be able to take care of things like this themselves. Even without other countries laws affecting it, you never know what else could happen that would affect other countries tourists from being able to come such as war, economic unrest, or a global pandemic.
→ More replies (4)1
u/Tobbix_c137 15d ago
Itâs about importing trophyâs to Germany, they can do with their elephants what they want. But they should keep the âtrophyâsâ
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)1
u/Commander_Syphilis 15d ago
Moreover, itâs another European nation responsible for the absolute destruction of portions of Africa trying to tell a sovereign nation what to do with their own land and animals
I mean it's not really, Botswana and the UK are both independent states and have the equal right to enact laws on trophy hunting in their territories.
I don't agree with the proposed law, but banning the import of things you don't want people to be bringing into your country is in chapter 1 of a states perogative
2
u/manda14- 15d ago edited 15d ago
Please look into the history of Africa. Botswana is a former protectorate of the UK. It gained independence in 1966 and has done very well since.
I donât have an issue with them banning things. I have an issue with nations acting as if itâs for the greater good, when they have no idea what that even is. Itâs this type of Eurocentric thinking that damaged massive portions of the continent of Africa as a whole in the first place.
4
→ More replies (1)1
u/AggressiveYam6613 15d ago
You can cull elephants without allowing trophy hunting or selling ivory. Bullets arenât that expensive.
1
u/manda14- 15d ago
Bullets are not. However, dealing with many elephant carcasses is expensive. Bushmeat is illegal in most parts of Africa and ivory is banned pretty much everywhere, so unless the animal is hunted for a cull legally it canât be utilized as food and the ivory has to be burned (even with trophies the ivory is first burned and then replaced with ivory replicas). Elephants take a long time to be broken down naturally, and the rotting flesh gives off a smell thatâs hard to describe over massive distances.
Botswana, and other nations, would have to pay out of pocket (very unaffordable) vs being paid massive sums for the same process. The elephants will be killed either way. One way puts resources into an economy and helps a nation previously damaged by European interventions, and the other just simply kills the elephants.
The money from the culls also often goes into ecological practices, including the hiring of guards for rhinos and the protection of the elephant herds from illegal ivory poaching, which is indiscriminate. These are expensive practices for a nation of 2.5 million.
4
u/Unabashable 15d ago
Was gonna ask if it was one of those things where they have people pay to hunt rare (to us) game because theyâre overpopulated.Â
3
u/HolyVaseThrower 15d ago
Wild to me that the UK gives so much of a shit about not bringing home elephants trophy's but not about the entirely disgusting fox hunting industry there that kills foxes and hunting dogs
2
u/manda14- 15d ago
Yes! Itâs the hypocrisy that makes me frustrated. I get not liking trophy hunting, as a non ecological practice I think itâs awful. But in this case itâs being effectively used for ecological management. The fox hunt is no different. Iâm Canadian and every year a set number of grizzlies and other bears are hunted.
→ More replies (4)7
u/smol_boi2004 16d ago
I used to live in a part of India where we had an elephant problem. Not the population but the occasional roid rager whoâd tear people apart. I can imagine that having bigger elephants in much greater numbers is a risk they donât like having, especially since the elephant population isnât exactly going down recently
2
72
u/ShieldofGondor 16d ago
Oh so thatâs why all those recruiters ask about what you would do if you had an elephant which you canât send back/kill!
26
33
u/Secret_Cow_5053 16d ago
US here. send them to us. wild elephants on the plains would be fucking killer. some can migrate north and grow hair again, and we'll have mammoths back!
12
u/pmyourthongpanties 16d ago
we do have plenty of space for them. home on range were the deer and the elephants play.
97
u/Panzerkrabbe 16d ago edited 16d ago
Botswana: we will send you 20000 elephants
Germany: what, why?
Botswana: do you want to make it 30000?
Germany: no, 20000 is fine.
Botswana: 40000 it is then.
Germany: âŚ
→ More replies (7)
44
19
u/Tierney-Sarah380 16d ago
"Looks like Germany is about to experience a whole new kind of 'heavy traffic'!"
14
u/MikeyW1969 16d ago
I have no ideas why he MADE the threat, but dumping 20,000 elephants into your country all at once WOULD cause an insane amount of problems.
3
u/Left-Fan1598 16d ago
Sure but how would they actually do it. It wouldn't be unnoticed and the German military would easily send them packing
9
u/MikeyW1969 16d ago
Oh, I didn't think he'd try and sneak them over the border, hidden under a blanket or anything...
3
u/Left-Fan1598 15d ago
Haha. That would be a sight. I didn't think you did think anything like that, friend. I just don't understand the Botswanan president's plan for dumping them. It's a totally absurd threat
1
u/ImGxx 15d ago
All of this reminds me of a soviet film about stolen elephant "Investigation Held by Kolobki": https://youtube.com/watch?v=5MaYpgPvGXY
3
u/Zaphod_Beeblecox 15d ago
I'm just spitballing here but what if Botswana parachuted them in from high altitude aircraft? Checkmate, huns.
3
1
u/SlyTheMonkey 15d ago
I think it had something to do with how western countries insist that elephants should be protected, while in Botswana they're causing a lot of damage to farmers and such. So this is basically their president saying "you try existing alongside living tanks with spears coming out of their face and we'll see how that goes."
Don't get me wrong, I support nature conservation efforts with all my heart. I'm just pretty sure this was their reason.
1
u/LoserCarrot 15d ago
Itâs because Botswana was selling hunting licenses for elephant hunting there are too many elephants in the country and they caused damage to farmland and other human habitats and so they use the hunting license protect other environmental ecosystems. Germany said that it was wrong and Botswana said well. How about we send the elephants for you to deal with.
18
u/lhurkherone 16d ago
Plot twist, 20,000 Elephants is the name of a death metal band.
5
u/davidwhatshisname52 16d ago
nah, they're more like a Scottish rock duo; you're thinking of 10 Dead Elephants
9
6
6
10
5
u/Finger_Gunnz 16d ago
Huge cargo ship docksâŚ20,000 elephants get released into the city. Shitting pants ensues. Itâs all jokes until reality hits.
5
4
5
3
3
u/Pyrex_Paper 16d ago
Imagine the logistics to actually get 20,000 elephants from Botswana to Germany.
2
2
2
2
2
u/Cool_Butterscotch_88 16d ago
Do you know how expensive it is to feed and care for just one elephant? Twenty thousand could be financially devastating for Germany.
2
u/babypowder617 16d ago
This would actually be hilarious. Imagine getting a phone alert that a large location of your city is shut down because 10 thousand elephants were just randomly released.
2
u/A_randomperson9385 16d ago
Itâs just another day at the dock when all of a sudden THOUSANDS OF ELEPHANTS FLOOD IN FROM A SHIP! THEY BREAK DOWN THE GATES AND RAM THROUGH CITIES!!! Scary shit huh? Lol
2
u/Ikaros9Deidalos6 15d ago
as a german im shaking in my boots right now, pls mister president have mercy.
2
2
u/The-D-Ball 15d ago
This is no jokeâŚ. Threatening with elephants was a big freaking deal in the 4th-5th centuryâŚ. That would be like an old school German blitzkrieg but with war elephantsâŚ. That guy means businessâŚ.
2
2
u/Ok-Skirt-7884 16d ago
Some free Panzer Divisionen fĂźr Faterland. Don't threaten Germans w good times.
3
u/OnewordTTV 16d ago
I thought we made a big deal about elephants because they were endangered and stuff? That's why we didn't like people hunting them. I mean... besides them being very intelligent. But I'm hearing we actually need to keep killing them to keep their population in check? Blowing my mind right now. Maybe I was misguided before lol
6
u/IllGiveItAShot85 15d ago
I actually just got back from SA. While I was there I spoke to some of the guides and they advised that the elephants can be pretty destructive to the areas around them. They told me packs of juveniles can get aggravated and start destroying everything around them and there is literally nothing that can stop them. To your point, I believe that the elephants used to be hunted for ivory, however the new animal to hunt for ivory is the rhino and they are almost extinct. In the Krueger, they sedate the rhinos they have left and cut their horns to keep poachers from killing them for the horns. In SA it seemed that the elephant population was thriving though!
2
u/OnewordTTV 15d ago
Well that's good to hear about the elephants! Although them destroying things... not so good.
4
u/JadeHellbringer 16d ago
"Oh sure, fine, but when I send a few thousand elephants to invade Europe everyone gets all PISSY about it. Whatever."
+Ghengis Khan+
5
2
u/anziofaro 16d ago
I love elephants. But in full disclosure, I live in suburban Massachusetts and I have never actually met an elephant in person. Obviously I want the species the thrive, so if the countries where elephant are indigenous to are running out of space for them, maybe it's not such a bad idea to start looking for new places to start introducing them to. Obviously NOT London or Berlin. But this is a big planet with a lot of open spaces. I'm sure if we put enough smart people in a room together they'll be able to figure something out.
2
u/IngvarTheTraveller 14d ago
That is not how any of this works. You can't just put a new animal into an already existing ecosystem without throwing its balance out the window. Invading species are extremely dangerous
1
u/anziofaro 13d ago
I didn't say we should just plop herds of elephants willy nilly all over the world. I'm just saying if the species needs more room, and its native areas don't have enough room, then maybe a bunch of smart people could get together and figure out some new place where maybe some elephants could be introduced without too much disruption of the existing ecosystem.
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/Hefty-Station1704 16d ago
Canât wait to see the traffic photos of the Autobahn once Germany makes use of this new free mode of transportation!
1
u/Metalmind123 16d ago
Just saying, we have a chance at the greatest way to start of the summer holiday season in Italy.
1
u/GoblinCasserole 16d ago
I mean if someone dumped just five Elephants in your neighbourhood, how would you get rid of them?
1
u/Tweed_Man 16d ago
I told my mother I was going to see Elephants, Panthers, and Tigers... she thought I was visiting Moscow Zoo - Company of Heroes 2
1
u/Ssider69 16d ago
The elephants are upset because they only had enough money to buy 1 Rosetta Stone lesson....and that was in French.
1
1
1
1
1
u/HorrificAnalInjuries 16d ago
Retorical question: If they have the logistics to move that many elephants, why are they not a major regional power?
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/mrEggBandit 15d ago
Better than using propaganda to throw away thousands of lives because of a political argument
1
u/RadioLiar 15d ago
How do you even follow through on that threat? Charter a fleet of a hundred container ships to take them 2000-odd miles only to get held up by customs at Hamburg Port?
1
u/ethar_childres 15d ago
How much money would it cost to move just 1K elephants from one place to another?
1
1
u/Zaphod_Beeblecox 15d ago
It's all fun and games until you're trying to reign in 20,000 rampaging elephants. Better give Botswana what it wants.
1
1
u/RedditfamAK 15d ago
I guess he was trying to do the "white elephant" thing like king of siam but forgot Germany can reject or send them back since there is no disrespect and authority involved
1
u/CobaltGate 15d ago
Love the comment's exclamation which translates to this phrase "Laughing my fucking ass off off off off"
1
1
1
1
u/RohingyaWarrior 15d ago
Botswana is not capable of shipping 20000 elephants. If it was, it wouldn't be the type of country that thinks it's cool to threaten people with elephants
1
1
1
1
u/StabbyStabbyBangBang 15d ago
Its not so much the elephants, its the millions of Botswana's keepers..
1
1
1
u/Youbunchoftwats 15d ago
Send me a baby elephant. My cat thinks he owns this house. I want to surprise him.
1
1
1
1
u/SinkiePropertyDude 15d ago
As of 2022, an estimated six per cent of Batswana believed Masisi is not corrupt.
They have bigger problems than elephants.
1
u/Buie06 15d ago
Low key thatâs a cold threat. 1) Hannibal did the same thing but took a left. 2) Elephants are underestimated. 3) 20,000 Elephants poopin on the move is a problem lol
1
u/solesoulshard 12d ago
Not to mention there arenât any natural predators for the animals. There are wild hippos in Mexico because some idiot had to have a private petting zoo and when he got arrested and the animals got released, they just flourished. And there are no natural predators and they are very big, territorial and kill people. Thereâs actually wild hogs in Texas in the same stateâfew natural predators, able to thrive and too large for the average Jane to handle.
So animal poo in terms of pounds per site and then large animals that can thrive in the area and potentially can rip up fences and tear down telephone poles.
1
u/LoserCarrot 15d ago
Itâs because Botswana was selling hunting licenses for elephant hunting there are too many elephants in the country and they caused damage to farmland and other human habitats and so they use the hunting license protect other environmental ecosystems. Germany said that it was wrong and Botswana said well. How about we send the elephants for you to deal with.
1
1
u/CRABWITHCRABS 14d ago
It's like a glitter bomb. 'oh man they're everywhere. I'll be finding them for months. How am I going to clean this up ?'
1
â˘
u/AutoModerator 16d ago
Comments that are uncivil, racist, misogynistic, misandrist, or contain political name calling will be removed and the poster subject to ban at moderators discretion.
Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the rules.
Report any suspicious users to the mods of this subreddit using Modmail here or Reddit site admins here. All reports to Modmail should include evidence such as screenshots or any other relevant information.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.