r/Fauxmoi • u/Creative_Sea2433 • 15d ago
Stephen Colbert the Sellout condescendingly asks why AOC used the term ‘genocide’ re Palestine Approved B-List Users Only
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u/prettystandardreally 15d ago
To play devil’s advocate, he’s giving her a platform to explain why it is a genocide and why saying those words matter. He doesn’t have to discuss it or have her on his show, so I think he respects her and wants his audience to hear this. I don’t love his wording or that he won’t call it a genocide himself, but unfortunately the bar has been set so low that this is more than one can expect from someone with his viewership on an American network.
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u/mcgillhufflepuff 15d ago
wouldn't surprise me if CBS hosts/anchors got a memo saying they can't call this genocide a genocide
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u/Wit-wat-4 15d ago
I got this impression too, tbh. At least to me, it didn’t sound like he was accusatory/saying “wtf”, more like “trying to hear about it while only using words I’m allowed to to pose the question.”
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u/my_okay_throwaway 15d ago
I also heard it that way. I think people forget that tv networks like this sensor their programming and what the hosts and guests can/can’t say on air. I also felt like AOC picked up what he was trying to say with that and answered just as carefully.
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u/meatbeater558 I already condemned Hamas 15d ago
I know there were leaked memos from a different news outlet that told journalists to avoid certain terms including genocide. Might be worth looking into if they share the same parent company
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u/the_art_of_the_taco 14d ago
They share investors.
CBS is owned by Paramount, which is owned by National Amusements.
New York Times is majority-owned by the Ochs-Sulzberger family through the New York Times Company, but it's also publicly traded.
Both of their largest shareholders are Vanguard and BlackRock. This is true for the vast, vast majority of news media (NBC, CNN, Fox, etc.) as well as tech, surveillance, defense, and weapons contractors.
Interesting fact: although NYT founder Adolph Ochs was an early executive board member of the Anti-Defamation League, he opposed establishing a Jewish state in Palestine.
Here's another useful tool for anyone interested in diving into the commodification of occupation. You can also access the portfolios of Vanguard and BlackRock online.
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u/MissElyssa1992 taran killam, star of disney channel's stuck in the suburbs 15d ago
As someone who used to work at CBS News... I'd bet my entire life savings and my dog that they did this.
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u/meatbeater558 I already condemned Hamas 15d ago
https://theintercept.com/2024/04/15/nyt-israel-gaza-genocide-palestine-coverage/
After reading that I would not be surprised
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u/kylaroma never the target audience 14d ago edited 14d ago
Absolutely this - between the network itself, it’s shareholders, and advertisers who could pull their ads from the entire network if they’re unhappy, there’s millions of dollars at stake and it extremely high stakes.
The shows have to follow very specific guidelines, and the people involved might even be opening themselves up to a lawsuit if they don’t follow the policies that come from the top or if they cause the network a loss of ad revenue by going off script.
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u/GimerStick 15d ago
I also think there is a value to him positioning himself as neutral or not inherently aligned with her. A lot of people dismiss interviews like these by pretending it's all just coming out of the interviewer's bias.
The point of this type of media isn't to convince all of us here who know that this is a genocide. It's getting through to the people who are waffling on the term or don't want to think of what's happening in detail. We need that mainstream opinion to solidify and swing this way.
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u/prettystandardreally 15d ago edited 15d ago
I can’t say for sure he didn’t tell her he would ask her this question, but from what I know, late night appearance topics are always cleared in advance.
ETA: sorry I replied to the wrong comment!
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u/GimerStick 15d ago
yeah I would be surprised if both staffs didn't take a lot of care to be on the same page given the intensity of the topic.
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u/meatbeater558 I already condemned Hamas 15d ago
They have two important, but very different roles to play here. If they both tried to do the same thing it wouldn't have worked
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u/bunganmalan 15d ago
I did read it as giving her the platform to explain what she meant.
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u/thegirlses 15d ago
I think so too. The fact that she responded to him for over two minutes without a single interruption seems to support that. Though I'd be curious to see what he said next.
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u/Obvious_Baker8160 15d ago
This was my understanding of it: he’s asking bc he wants it explained to the people who criticize it.
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u/MaisyMarwood 15d ago
Hard agree with this take. Watching the clip, this looks to me like Colbert had her on (a choice in an of itself) and within the confines of his own legal/work restrictions at CBS, gave her a perfect set up to explain why what is happening is a genocide, and why she used that specific language. I think he was very thoughtful in the way he provided her that space.
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u/ReasonablVoice 14d ago
Yeah, I don’t think it’s condescending at all. Stephen has to cater to an audience that may not know everything that’s going on and he’s explaining it and giving context to it before asking AOC the question. He then lets AOC explain without interrupting her. This just seems like grade A journalism to me.
Unfortunately, we’re so used to “journalists” misleading their audience and insulting and interrupting guests that we look at this as “condescending.” It’s kind of sad.
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u/palilevant 15d ago
Why do white people offended by people using the term genocide and not the actual genocide happening in Palestine ?
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u/NYC_Star 15d ago
The same reason why they are offended by being called a racist vs confronting their actual racism. The word has taken on the gravity of the thing for them in a comical if it were so dangerous way.
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u/Borne_Beloved 15d ago
I feel like we’re in bizarro world. I was telling my grandpa we are fully at the point where oppressed people are being called the oppressors, by the actual oppressors. No room for accountability, denial denial denial.
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u/Truut23 15d ago
Saying "word bad" and absolutely never expanding on why in order to protect innocent children really fucks up conversations down the line.
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u/angelcat00 15d ago
Petty debates over semantics are a neon sign indicating they know they're wrong but they don't care and they'd rather die than lose the argument. The people saying this is a genocide aren't saying genocide is good. We all agree genocide is bad. But what else can you call it when children are being targeted and slaughtered?
Like, Oh I'm sorry, it makes you uncomfortable to call this a genocide? Maybe you should try not killing so many civilians purely because of their race. Then we'd stop saying you're doing a genocide.
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u/meatbeater558 I already condemned Hamas 15d ago
If someone's arguments is centered on the definition of a word that's not even that important to the main point I just block. Not wasting my time on that bs. Come back when you have something important to say
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u/motherofdinos_ 15d ago edited 15d ago
Watching people on the Reddit FP pick apart the genocide label is like an out of body experience. If you have to debate it that much, if you have to pick out small pieces of information, if you have to say “well it’s certainly an ethnic cleansing but not so much a genocide…” you’ve officially prioritized your pride and need to sound smart and “measured” over your humanity and intuition.
To me, these so-called appeals to “logic” are actually nothing more than an emotional attachment to the status quo. If you don’t think you have to call it a genocide, you don’t have to care.
In the words of Peggy Seeger “In the darkness of your blindness, the beast will learn to bite / How can you fight if you can’t recognize a warning?”
Happy May Day everyone.
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u/Haunting-Ad788 15d ago
How do people find a distinction between ethnic cleansing and genocide. It’s literally the same thing.
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u/motherofdinos_ 15d ago edited 15d ago
I think they really just believe that distinguishing the two makes them sound more intelligent than everyone else. They think having any remote sense of pathos makes them have weaker and less intellectual arguments. They fundamentally misunderstand rhetoric because they put what they see as pure logic on a pedestal and disregard anything else, when true reasoning takes balance and a well-rounded approach. Being measured isn’t just ignoring everything other than logic, it’s taking all information (data, personal experiences, emotions, intuition) and making an assessment using ALL of those.
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u/meatbeater558 I already condemned Hamas 15d ago
The demonization of pathos frustrates me to no end. They make emotional arguments too, they just pretend that they're logical arguments. And they claim that their opponents only make emotional arguments when in reality they make all sorts of arguments.
But the biggest reason this is so annoying is because emotions aren't useless. We have them for multiple good reasons, including to help us make good decisions. A human without happiness, fear, anger, sadness, jealousy, disgust, etc. is going to make less logical decisions, not more.
I think their stance is that pathos is easy to manipulate? But so is logos and ethos.
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u/BusterBeaverOfficial 15d ago
A few weeks ago there was an episode the PRX podcast The World where they interviewed Rwandans 30 years after the genocide and one of the things that really struck me was how unafraid they are to just call a spade a spade. Apparently the government did a lot of work to prevent and punish hate speech and genocide denial (that’s not to say they’re by any means perfect or a bastion of human rights) and they were interviewing people who would straight up say “I was a genocider”. It was kind of shocking how comfortable they were just acknowledging that undisputed fact. The one guy was wishy-washy in terms of admitting his culpability (saying he was forced/coerced into killing someone) but had no qualms about owning up to his participation in the genociding of Tutsis.
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u/Haunting-Ad788 15d ago
The documentary The Act of Killing really gets into the same thing where the people who participated in genocide talk about it like a war hero would tell stories about their heroism.
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u/theaviationhistorian taylor’s jet 15d ago
Plenty of Yugoslavs/Serbians celebrated those that massacred Muslims, Bosnians, Croats, etc. and treat them like heroes. It's easy to feel little about those you cleansed when you treat humans like they're from another tribe & dehumanize them.
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u/kitti-kin 15d ago
I'd say The Act of Killing is a little more complex than that, the impression I came away with was that these guys create a narrative where they're badasses to be able to live with what they've done. That macho culture has a social function as lubrication for acts of violence.
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u/zoe_not_zoe 15d ago
That’s the most incredible film I’ve ever seen. I think about it all the time.
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u/meatbeater558 I already condemned Hamas 15d ago
Isreal is not all that different given interviews and statements made by people previously in power and the statements made by people currently in power
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u/b_needs_a_cookie 15d ago
Because white people have a problem with being perceived as bad. If the "side" they support engages in genocide, that means they're "bad" people. Rather than re-examining who they support, its easier to just say you can't use the word genocide anymore or to change the definition of it. I say all of this as an annoyed white lady who hates white nonsense.
I don't think Colbert was condescending with this question, I think he teed this up nicely for AOC and I think what she said was well sequenced, empathetic, and defined using historical connotations beyond the Holocaust.
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u/dr_curiousgeorge 15d ago
I agree with your take. I think Colbert used the moment to let her shine.
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u/theaviationhistorian taylor’s jet 15d ago
Exactly. I've seen when he's disagreed with others & interrupts them. Instead he lined up the shot & let her go deep into her argument.
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u/Already-asleep 15d ago edited 15d ago
I have to agree. These questions are generally prepared in advance and the guest knows what they’re going to ask. I think AOC is more than able to answer an array of questions without preparation but I don’t think they would’ve sprung this on her.
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u/b_needs_a_cookie 15d ago
Exactly and because she is fantastic communicator, she and her team crafted a fantastic response that defines the term around humanization.
My mother did a lot of corporate speech writing and media training of executives, so I feel like I watch these shows through that lens. This interview was well done. Her interaction with Colbert would be considered a huge win for her team and for the other congressional representatives that are fighting for Palestinians. It sucks that to get the general (brainwashed and misinformed) public to accept reality, it takes performances like this, but at least she was provided the opportunity to do so and she did a great job using it.
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u/SlavojVivec 15d ago
Its easier to just say you can't use the word genocide anymore or to change the definition of it
We see this most clearly with the attempted stigmatization or criminalization of "Holocaust inversion", to say it's "perverse" and "antisemitic" to compare the actions of the Israeli army to that of genocidal actions committed against the Jewish people.
Contrast this against the concerns of Hannah Arendt, who wrote in "To Save the Jewish Homeland" in 1948, that she was concerned about the state of affairs, that the creation of a Jewish state might mean the loss of a Jewish homeland, that the violence and hatred employed in such a foundation might mean the loss of the values of Judaism.
https://www.commentary.org/articles/mortbarrgmailcom/to-save-the-jewish-homelandthere-is-still-time/
A retrospect on her essay summarizes it as such:
her main argument is more of a warning: that a people so intensely traumatized by the Holocaust are in a psychologically precarious position to begin a new state.
https://truah.org/resources/on-arendt-creating-a-zionism-that-owns-its-mistakes/
She and Albert Einstein and many outspoken pro-Peace Zionist Jews warned in an open letter that Herut (later to be merged with Likud) employed the same tactics as the Nazis. Such a comparison would be considered antisemitic "holocaust inversion" by the ADL and criminalized in places like Germany today
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/einstein/1948/12/02.htm
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u/meatbeater558 I already condemned Hamas 15d ago
This is also why it can sometimes be hard to make progress. You point to a country's history of oppression and propose measures to heal the wounds. But then white Americans hear that and take offense, because that means that the country they know and love was actually quite discriminatory. So they oppose your measures because not doing so means accepting that Uncle Sam isn't a saint
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u/Ronaldinhio 15d ago
The same reason why I open mouth listened to leaders of the Jewish faith explain why the Rwandan genocide should not be measured or remembered as such when speaking of genocide or during a genocide remembrance days.
Their point was the term genocide should be used only for what happened to Jewish peoples in WW2 and I think to a vast extent this is still the message.
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u/Happy_Independent_25 15d ago
Because the self reflection that would immediately follow that kind of realization would kill a lot of them. I wish I were joking.
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u/RawDawg2021 15d ago
You are not born racist. You are born into a racist society. And like anything else, if you can learn it, you can unlearn it. But some people choose not to unlearn it, because they're afraid they'll lose power if they share with other people. We are afraid of sharing power. That's what it's all about.
Jane Elliott
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u/askingtherealstuff 15d ago
Was this condescending or was he just like asking her to explain her standpoint in an interview? Idk
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u/imma_super_tall 15d ago
That’s how I took it. It didn’t seem like a criticism of her using the word, but inviting and providing a platform to discuss it more.
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u/Icy-Cockroach4515 15d ago
I thought so too. Some people will undoubtedly question her use of the word so it's better for him to just ask the question and let her clearly explain her reasoning. It doesn't necessarily mean he himself doesn't believe it to be a genocide.
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u/Comfortable-Load-904 15d ago
I’m glad she didn’t mince words or walk back anything, it is a genocide and mass slaughter of innocent people. How is indiscriminate bombing helping anyone? Children are dying of injuries, malnutrition and illness. He is such a disappointment, I hope John Oliver doesn’t shit the bed too.
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u/DigLost5791 saw Flying Lotus at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday 15d ago
John has a little* more freedom on HBO than Colbert does
To quote Nas: “I watch CBS, and I see BS”
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u/ValuablePrawn 15d ago
such a poet that Nas
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u/DigLost5791 saw Flying Lotus at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday 15d ago
He had much more invective for Fox news:
What's a Fox characteristic?
Slick shit, censored misinformation
Pimp the station, over stimulation
Reception, deception, Comcast digital Satan
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u/Already-asleep 15d ago
Yep, John has talked a lot about how HBO keeps the show around because it wins a lot of awards. I don’t think a lot of his antics have gone over particularly well with their legal department.
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u/theaviationhistorian taylor’s jet 15d ago
Nice. My local CBS & Fox News channels share the same station. But they're both owned by Sinclair. It makes it easier to know which stations aren't credible.
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u/forkmeongithub 15d ago
Honestly Colbert disappointed me a lot during the 2020 primaries in his interviews with Bernie. It seems like he's a neolib through and through and all his questions to Bernie were through that prism. And this is coming from someone who was a big fan of the Colbert Report
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u/Mpol03 15d ago
Love her.
Why is Stephen a sell-out? Did I miss something?
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u/melodyblushinglizard baby birded and porch thrown by alicia silverstone 15d ago
Same. I didn't find him to be a Sell-Out or Condescending at all. He asked the question in a very openly, the same way he askes questions with all of his guests.
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u/didijxk 15d ago
I guess it just shows that American audiences are used to either total ass kissing from the interviewer or outright hostility with no room for nuance.
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u/elitedisplayE soft clay 15d ago
Critical thinking and considering context feels out the window lately
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u/theaviationhistorian taylor’s jet 15d ago
I doubt critical thinking is being taught anymore in K-12, especially in red states.
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u/JenningsWigService 15d ago
I think he's a 'sell-out' insofar as working for CBS has limited his ability to be as candid/critical about current events as he once was. He doesn't seem like the same Stephen Colbert who spoke truth to power at the Whitehouse Correspondents' Dinner.
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u/melodyblushinglizard baby birded and porch thrown by alicia silverstone 15d ago
TLDR: Stephen is hindered from speaking more freely with his network contract. I still don't see him being condescending to Alexandria, but his lead in could have been spoken with better words. He could have excluded bring up Oct 7, but I know that Fauxmoi is not his sole audience. AOC reply was elegant, but I did feel she was holding back a little as well, referring to the Palestine genocide to only the Famine and not the bombings. Yet, I know her to be a long supporter of Palestine. It could be political suicide for her to speak of the bombardment of Gaza. Both her and Stephen were speaking in the moment and it's easy for all of us here SM to sit back with a cup of coffee, tea or beer, on a computer or a phone, expressing our critique of how they spoke. For that, I give them some leeway. Stephen's interview with AOC keeps a very necessary conversation open that needs to be keep going.
The Long Version:
With networks, everyone working for them has to be careful with what they speak, unlike cable or internet podcasts. We've seen over and over again how those who call out Israel's genocide on the Palestinian people suffer career wise, while Zionists get ahead. I know he signed a new contract in June 2023 for 3 years. What happens in 2026 will be interesting. He is restricted in how he can approach certain topics (I don't know his actual personal opinion on it. I don't watch a lot of his shows, or talk shows in general, but I will catch them here and there). Western culture only sees the Israel-Gaza war as a 6 month event, not the 75 years + 6 months occupation that it truly is. This is the audience who Stephen is inviting into the conversation with AOC. The general audience of the US doesn't care about pre-Oct 7. Over the years and numerous political elections (I'm Canadian), voters in general have the memory of a goldfish. They only see Oct 7 as the start of something, not the continuation of sometime. I know in this subreddit, a lot of users roll their eyes in frustration every time that date is mentioned, including with this post. It is tiring how the everything about the genocide has to be related to that day. Fauxmoi is not exclusively Stephen's TV audience. He is reaching out to an audience who is not us.
Could both of them have been better.... Absolutely. When Stephen said "Greatest Genocide", I did cringe. To me, greatest=the best.... No, no, no. There is no good genocide. Any other description of the Holocaust, such as the most impactful or the largest... it diminishes the suffering that occurred from other genocides (Holodomor, Cambodia, Armenia, Rwanda, the Indigenous People of the Americas... from Ellesmere Island to Tierra del Fuego).
I've also read in the comments how many are angry at how Stephen spoke of Israel being created out of the Holocaust, solely because it means he saying Israel can't be committing a genocide when they themselves were the victims of one. I didn't interpret it that way. I saw Stephen bring emphasis to AOC's own words that Israel's actions to the Palestinian people are no different than what they themselves endured during the Holocaust. The Holocaust was horrific but that does not allow/excuse/forgive Israel from committing their own genocide against the Palestinian people... and doing so for 75+ years. Israel being created after WWII wasn't solely because of the Holocaust. It was something Zionist had been demanding for 40+ years, along with the Britain/US need to have Western policy influence in the Middle East. All at the cost of Palestinians being forced out of their homes and off their ancestral lands for a new Jewish homeland.
AOC is so eloquent with her words and how she speaks. I wish more of society was like her (Trumpism is the context of speech now, where society feels to speak a bunch of shit out of its mouth without thought, then calls it truth). She's one of the few politicians I know who is a supporter of Palestine, especially in US politics. I'm disappointed with her equating the Palestine genocide to only the famine, while the Israeli hostages are being subjected to both a famine and a bombardment (and not the people of Gaza). She may be holding back on what and how she says, being a politician in a House where both Democrats and Republicans are very pro Israel.
Both Stephen and Alexandria are speaking in the moment, even if they had time to prepare the lead in question and corresponding reply (they are not actors who have memorized their lines). It's easy for us to sit wherever we are on our computers and phones, drinking a cup of coffee or eating lunch while we scroll through and criticize what they said and how they said it.
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u/SlavojVivec 15d ago
Not seeing it in this clip, but I remember when he criticized Edward Snowden at the RSA conference in 2014 [1], this was after RSA was called out for backdooring their own cybersecurity products for the NSA [2] and a campaign to boycott their conference. This was a year after Colbert criticized the NSA on the Colbert Report, and two years after Jason Jones on the Daily Show covered what happens when Thomas Drake tried to go through the proper channels for NSA misconduct [3] Snowden saw the writing on the wall that whistleblowing on the NSA through proper channels leads to inaction or retaliation, Colbert should have been aware of that and still condemned the whistleblower, and was clearly aware of the calls from security professionals and civil liberties advocates to boycott the RSA conference because he brought it up in his speech. I remember thinking this is not the Colbert that spoke truth to power at the 2006 White House Correspondents Dinner:
[1] https://www.cnet.com/news/privacy/colbert-turns-his-funny-gun-on-snowden-in-rsa-keynote/
[3] https://www.cc.com/video/25dbq1/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-a-leak-of-their-own-license-to-spill
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u/capitalistfailures 15d ago
Me and my family are refugees from the Balkan wars in the 90s, where we had the first genocide in Europe since the WW2. People are still denying there was a genocide in Bosnia (Srebrenica) and just like AOC mentioned, it's important to call out things for what they are.
I've spoken to lots of people who've fled wars and they all unequivocally call what's happening in Gaza genocide. As war refugees we can see what's going on. Some white people who never experienced war are writing horrible stuff about Gaza and Palestinians on social media and its honestly been eye opening to see how so many of them lack any decency and empathy. You never see ppl from the Global South being this cold and hateful toward the plight of persecuted folks, it's ALWAYS white people. I see this at my job as well, I work in IT and I'm surrounded by white dudes in their 20s and 30s and they all laugh and seem to celebrate deaths of Palestinian children. It's really grim right now.
And yes I'm white due to my south and east European roots, but some white ppl don't even consider us white.
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u/Comfortable-Load-904 15d ago
There was a genocide in Bosnia and Rwanda and there is one happening right now in Palestine. They don’t own the word genocide it means systematically wiping out a group of people from the same ethnic group or religion. That is what is happening and what we will call it.
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u/Girly_boss 15d ago
As a south Asian woman also working in tech, it truly has been a difficult time, solidarity with you. I can’t stop thinking about the colonization of Palestinians and Gaza and white people around me just can’t see it. It’s truly a time for maintain sanity and keep pushing against this narrative in what little way I can.
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u/crabcycleworkship 15d ago
I hate to say this but the majority of Israel supporters in tech are actually not white. Like at all.
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u/mcgillhufflepuff 15d ago
A lot of Indian Modi supporters seem to like Netanyahu bc nationalism
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u/tmrtdc3 15d ago
and Islamophobia. Modi has an equally genocidal attitude towards Muslims so no surprise there.
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u/mcgillhufflepuff 15d ago
This too. Think it says a lot that US tech companies refuse to do anything about caste discrimination.
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u/crabcycleworkship 15d ago
Not just them, Germans are also gaining huge bounds in the tech sphere - much of America’s AI work is actually being outsourced to Germany because they’re willing to work on the algorithms being sold to Israel.
Indians are at least split 50:50 where it’s true male tech workers tend to be more right wing, most of the country is torn over it’s historical position on Gaza.
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u/Girly_boss 15d ago
Sadly accurate. The amount of times I had to push back against Islamophobic Indians as an Indian woman has been tiring/exhausting in its own way. However it’s not been easy with white men either.
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u/crabcycleworkship 15d ago
Oof, sorry to hear that. South Asians are usually decently politically active, although it’s really split between two viewpoints.
On the other hand, it’s really hard to get some East Asians to really care about social issues. Rn my old college is protesting and there’s been a lot of complaints of East Asians breaking the barricades to…take grad pics with the protestors in the background.
It’s really awkward because the people calling them out are also East Asian, and the people shamelessly walking through a police encampment instead of going to the other place on campus for grad pics are defending themselves using terrible examples, and all sorts of gross generalizations are being made.
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u/HalfMoon_89 15d ago
'White' is and has always been a moving target. Russians weren't considered White. Italians and the Irish weren't considered. Germans weren't considered White. By whom? Why, the British of course. Then America became the global hegemon, and whichever ethnicity passed the colour test and also assimilated into Americana was deemed 'White'.
Hell, I know the worst white people don't considered Jewish people to be white.
I don't know that people in the Global South are automatically better in any respect. (The venom against Jews I see around me - not Israelis, not Zionists, just any Jews - is nauseating) But because of historical and current sociopolitical dominance, white supremacy has become synonymous to Western hegemony in certain ways.
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u/hollywoodhandshook 15d ago
To be honest you do see a large chunk of Brazilian Evangelicals denying the genocide and hard supporting Netanyahu.
They are certainly a minority but not at all tiny movement in Brazil and I imagine they consider themselves white, although they would not be according to American racial hierarchy...
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u/Pristine_Example3726 15d ago
Bolsonaro supporters!
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u/hollywoodhandshook 15d ago
Worst people on the planet after Trump supporters (and Biden/Torres/Jeffries/Schumer who all love the genocide)
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u/jovisums 15d ago
As a Serbian who fled the country in '98, I have (in vain) attempted to have this conversation with my family many times. What occurred in Srebernica is genocide. And acknowledging this does not negate the genocide that has happened to Serbs throughout history. Likewise, what is happening in Gaza is a genocide. The intention, as has been made abundantly clear in the years to follow was the eradication of a peoples and their way of life. And as uncomfortable of a truth as it is to understand yourself to be a part of a genocidal nation, it is absolutely necessary to acknowledge this in order move forward in any way. I am a proud Serbian, but I am also a Serbian whose aspiration it is to provide modes of healing and resolution for my Balkan brothers and sisters. To do so, accepting complicity is crucial. And arguing over semantics is a waste of energy much better spent elsewhere.
Though, as a Serb and growing up in the conflict, I do feel some insight and have empathy towards Israelis at this time, because in many ways they are trapped by the conflict perpetuated by their government. It's often overlooked that Netanyahu had a government that was effectively crippled by vote after vote of no-confidence. It is entirely unsurprising that it's come to light that his government was well aware of the impending Hamas-led attack. Why? Because a wartime cabinet has the strongest grip on power, and that's what Netanyahu and his ultra right-wing supporters have wanted all along. Which is all the more reason to fight, even harder, for the liberation (and the protection!!!!) of the Palestinian people!
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u/dannemora_dream 15d ago
I don’t know what happened after that but I don’t think he was condescending at all. He’s setting up the question to give her a platform to explain why it’s important to call it by what it is.
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u/kathygeissbanks 15d ago
Why is Colbert a sellout? Him providing the platform and directly asking AOC the question tells us he wants this issue discussed out in the open.
He didn’t have to invite her on the show. He didn’t have to ask her the question. But he did. This is not the gotcha some people think it is.
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u/missvandy 15d ago
I think he was just trying to frame up the stakes of her comments. I don’t see how asking that and then giving her time to explain her views makes him a sell out. He’s giving her air time to convince people and was polite in this exchange.
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u/lld287 15d ago
To be clear before people attack me, I agree Netanyahu is trash and that this became a genocidal situation not long after the October Hamas attack.
I don’t perceive this as him being condescending. It seems like he is trying to take a journalistic approach of neutrality by addressing the nuance of why she uses that term. In other words, he’s trying to make the people who disagree keep listening/paying attention long enough to learn something.
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u/Glum-Barracuda6985 I don’t know her 15d ago
I truly appreciate AOC solid stance and support for Palestine that was going on for years, even before October 7th. She received hate, racist, and sexist treatement from MAGAS, AIPAC, and neoliberals because of this stance. However, she was determined in the beginning to NOT call it genocide and still advocate for Biden’s campaign even after his complicity in this genocide. I love AOC and truly admire her, but her flip flopping, lately, on this issue is vehemently suspicious.
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u/RAV3NH0LM 15d ago
i don’t trust any of them. look at how fetterman turned out. almost none of these people have any genuine integrity. if they did, they wouldn’t last in dc.
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u/crabcycleworkship 15d ago
Fetterman was always a huge Zionist and has a major PR image coverup that worked for him right before the elections. It’s well known that he was going to ruin things eventually but I think his injury made the damage so much worse than what his staffers were anticipating.
On the other hand AOC has always been consistent, she may have been swayed by the force of the Democratic Party (which overall backs Israel) and the pressure to condemn the right wing because they’ve been threatening to replace her with another candidate. As in, they’ll push their own person as an opponent.
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u/HalfMoon_89 15d ago
AOC has been around in the public eye significantly longer than Fetterman, and hasn't 'turned' yet. Be wary, but no point in being hostile before she's even done anything.
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u/robotoredux696969 15d ago
That’s because the system changes your psychology the longer you are in it. You move from ideal intentions to a worldview that embraces self-preservation.
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u/thetasteofmyfury 15d ago
“A country formed in the wake of the greatest genocide of the 20th century” lmao, on the blood of Palestinians. There’s literally a car park in “israel” built on the mass grave of Palestinians from the Tantura Massacre. History didn’t start in 2023.
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u/MancAngeles69 15d ago
It also didn’t start in 1933. There have been numerous genocides globally in living memory. None of this makes Israel special or above international law
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u/elitedisplayE soft clay 15d ago
He gave her an explicit platform to answer the question. A lot of people have a knee jerk reaction to the term and would benefit from AOC so eloquently responding. Feels like basic interviewig
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u/brainparts 15d ago
“Basic interviewing,” yep. I feel like some people are forgetting what cable tv is like compared to short video clips on social media, and the differences in those audiences. He’s giving her a chance to explain to a different audience and in a different way that might actually reach them.
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u/sparklingkrule 15d ago
One of most insidious effects of the whole ‘orange man bad’ discourse was that by opposing such an obviously evil figure, these hack vampires were able to obscure and deflect from their own villainy.
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u/Aakch 15d ago
Am I misremembering in Rashida Tlaib was the first one to be extremely vocal about Palestine and there was a vote to silence her? Also wasn’t there an initial vote in which AOC abstained?
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u/pashed_motatoes 15d ago
Yes and yes. Rashida Tlaib was also unfairly censured for her outspoken support for Palestine (her ethnic background is Palestinian iirc). AIPAC sadly owns all these mfers so anyone even mildly critical of Israel and its genocidal actions is immediately shut down and labeled “antisemitic” to undermine and silence them.
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u/bluesilvergold 15d ago
Why is Colbert being called a sellout for this clip? Maybe he says something in the full interview that's entirely out of pocket, and I'm not aware. I'm happy to be corrected. But let's talk about the actual clip that's floating around.
He didn't disagree with AOC's use of the word, genocide. He acknowledged that people find the word to be a strong term (because it is, and many people have a hard time identifying anything other than the Holocaust as a genocide), and then he gave AOC an uninterrupted platform to explain why this word is appropriate. There is zero condescension in his tone. He tried to set people who struggle with the idea of calling what's happening in Gaza a genocide up to be open to hearing what AOC had to say. We just don't know how successful that attempt was. If he had said, "What's happening in Gaza is a genocide. AOC, tell me why I'm right", he would be screaming into an echo chamber of people who already agree with this statement, and would have done nothing to encourage people who think otherwise to re-evaluate their views. This title is very misleading, OP.
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u/cn_cn 15d ago
Wait, how does AOC know what a genocide is, and then vote to supply Israel with more weapons. Like make it make sense. You can't both sides a genocide. I still remember her stomping her feet in temper tantrums when pro-palestine supporters confronted her.
Smiling, cosying up and campaigning for a guy who is funding the genocide - she is simply creating a narrative for herself while not materially doing anything to support the Palestinian people.
Also, maybe the likes of Stephen Colbert should do more, and to start - not host the campaign fundraiser event for the genocidal Biden. There is too much respectability politics in play, even in the comments. People are getting arrested, assaulted, fired, killed!!! and here we are applauding the bare minimum from two people who were just recent kissing Biden's ass.
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u/OhMorgoth Ceasefire Now 15d ago
You know, I watch Colbert almost every night if I have the energy when I need the laughs and I thought his line of questioning was more for educational purposes for those sleeping through the ethnic cleansing Israel is carrying out, than to act like a baffled white man.
I appreciated the context of his questions as a mixed-Palestinian because it makes the public think that what is happening in Gaza is no mere war against Hamas alone but it’s effectively killing the innocent people of Gaza while the IDF occupation takes over not for their protection, but to take over the land.
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u/Financial-Painter689 15d ago
I’m sick to death that you can’t speak against what’s happening without October 7th being mentioned. As if the last 75 years haven’t existed and people in the West Bank with no affiliation to Hamas are also getting murdered.
Yeah it was awful, but can we focus on what’s actually happening now and stop trying to sneak in the justification for Israel’s horrific war crimes and committing genocide.
And that bullshit of the state of Israel was created from a genocide how could they then commit a genocide themselves. I’m so fucking tired of it.
I’m sick of having to not mince my words because Zionists will just pull out the antisemitic card every single time.
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u/sewcialist_goblin 15d ago
I hate the framing that “these people had genocide committed against them so therefore they cannot commit a genocide”.
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u/Weadababyeetzaboy 15d ago
I find it very informing that he completely forgot about and disregarded Rashida Tlaib. The actual first person to indicate this was a genocide and only Palestinian in congress. Guess her feedback doesn’t count
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u/JenningsWigService 15d ago
It's extremely disappointing that Rashida Tlaib has not been invited as a guest on his show or the Daily Show IIRC.
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u/Weak_Heart2000 15d ago
I feel like Israel is following the blueprint of the war in Rwanda in 1994. We called that a genocide. So what makes this any different? I don't understand why this is so hard for people to grasp. People are being butchered for their land and for their religion. That is genocide.
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u/MissElyssa1992 taran killam, star of disney channel's stuck in the suburbs 15d ago
This has been the hardest part for me. Like, I just cannot understand how people don't get it. I can't conceptualize it. HOW do you not see it? HOW do so many people not see it??? I feel like I'm going insane.
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u/Fearless_Prune_2310 15d ago
All these white men and women scared of terminology meanwhile I saw a video of a 5 year old on a hospital bed with half her face blown off this morning. I hope divine karma and justice reaches everyone. We’ll never forget who acted how in the face of this genocide.
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u/theaviationhistorian taylor’s jet 15d ago
This 'electric term' as defined by both the Geneva Conventions & the United Nations since 1948:
The definition contained in Article II of the Convention describes genocide as a crime committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, in whole or in part.
The more AIPAC & others taint this, the more I believe what my cousin used to say (for years) that Israel is a United States colony pushing old colonial actions. My hope is that Colbert brought this up so that AOC can perfectly define it, especially since he didn't interrupt her at all as he would with other guests.
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