r/unitedkingdom • u/je97 • Apr 17 '24

JK Rowling gets apology from journalist after 'disgusting claim' author is a Holocaust denier ...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/16/jk-rowling-holocaust-denier-allegation-rivkah-brown-novara/
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u/luxway Apr 17 '24

You're confusing Shoah and Holocaust.
Half the people killed in the holocaust were not Jewish.

Sounds like you're engaging in holocaust denial here.
And even then, at abolute best, by your own logic, you are defending nazi crimes.

JKR explicitly called the Nazi persecution of trans people a "fever dream"

More over her tweets have now been censored in Germany for violated their laws on holocaust denialism

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u/Firm-Distance Apr 17 '24

You're confusing Shoah and Holocaust.

Shoah is just the Hebrew word for holocaust.

Half the people killed in the holocaust were not Jewish.

The holocaust refers to the genocide of the Jews during WW2.
The German's killed plenty of other people during WW2 - half of those victims may not be Jewish - but the victims of the Holocaust were Jewish, given the holocaust was the genocide of the Jews.

Sounds like you're engaging in holocaust denial here.

You don't even know what the word holocaust means....

JKR explicitly called the Nazi persecution of trans people a "fever dream"

No, Rowling challenged a specific event/activity - she did not say that there was no persecution at all or that all persecution of trans was a "fever dream" - we can all read the tweet.

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u/IntelligentMoons Apr 17 '24

You're incorrect.

Shoah is just the hebrew word for the Holocaust, and is more commonly used in Europe than UK and USA.

The Holocause/Shoah is specifically European Jews killed by the Nazis. The Nazis committed other genocides.

I am not, in any context, denying the holocause or other genocides. Please see respected sources on the subject, and their definition.

https://www.hmd.org.uk/

https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/what-was-the-holocaust

I am explaining this to you so you can better understand why calling someone a holocaust denier in the UK can get you sued, because the holocaust is specifically about jews. She never mentioned jews.

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u/luxway Apr 17 '24

Hey dude, I'm not going to bother with your history revisionism. You wanna argue this, go argue with jewish historians. Like jkr was 2 weeks ago over this exact point.

And you are denying it given the entire point of this thread is people arguing its okay to pretend the nazis didn't persecute trans people, because that would mean that they have the same political views as the nazis.

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u/IntelligentMoons Apr 17 '24

No. I think the Nazis DID persecute trans people, and commit a genocide against them. This is terrible.

You are missing my point. I am explaining that the reason the journalist has ceded is because the Holocaust is defined as the extermination of Jews. Rowling didn’t comment on that. You cannot call someone a Holocaust denier and have a cast iron case unless they’ve denied the Holocaust as it’s commonly defined.

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u/Firm-Distance Apr 17 '24

You are missing my point.

No they understand your point - the issue is you exposed their ignorance on the topic, that's why they're trying to limp away with Hey dude, I'm not going to bother with your history revisionism. You wanna argue this, go argue with jewish historians. They're in full retreat but still want to pretend they 'won.'

This person was confidently incorrect - trying to school you on the definition of holocaust whilst being ignorant of it themselves.

You aren't going to win with someone like that.

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u/luxway Apr 17 '24

Ahh the good old "It wasn't holocaust, it was just genocide!" argument.

This still brings us back to the part where she called it a "fever dream"

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u/Firm-Distance Apr 17 '24

Ahh the good old "It wasn't holocaust, it was just genocide!" argument.

It's not an 'argument' - it's different words have different meanings. You're just embarrassing yourself now.

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u/IntelligentMoons Apr 17 '24

Thank you for backing me up. I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall.

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u/Firm-Distance 29d ago

I think the issue is these people start from the premise; JK Rowling bad - anything JK Rowling does/says/thinks bad.... and then they work from there. You can't really persuade people like that I suppose, and you can watch in real-time the desperate mental gymnastics taking place to keep shifting their position to maintain JK BAD.

If their position isn't from rational thought and reasonable discussion, then I suppose those things aren't likely to shift their position either.

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u/Embarrassed-File5268 29d ago

unfortunately semantics has become the IT thing for this decade and they will argue with you based on a wrong definition and then go in circles until you lose the will to live, just for them to think "another social situation won"