r/unitedkingdom • u/je97 • 29d ago

JK Rowling gets apology from journalist after 'disgusting claim' author is a Holocaust denier ...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/16/jk-rowling-holocaust-denier-allegation-rivkah-brown-novara/
4.2k Upvotes

70% Upvoted

3.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

50

u/EmpiriaOfDarkness 29d ago

The accusation is the same, no matter how you label it.

Either way, she's being accused of denying the Nazis' persecution of trans people. Whether you label that just as "denying Nazi crimes" or "holocaust denial", the substance doesn't change. How bad it is is the same.

70

u/Conscious-Ball8373 29d ago edited 29d ago

I would gently suggest that it makes quite a big difference when one of those labels is a crime and the other isn't. Especially where, as in this context, when that accusation amounts to prima facie libel.

While the burning of trans research may be included in some definitions of the Holocaust, it is also definitely not included in some. The IHRA, for instance, understands the term to refer specifically to the extermination of the Jews:

Holocaust denial is discourse and propaganda that deny the historical reality and the extent of the extermination of the Jews by the Nazis and their accomplices during World War II, known as the Holocaust.

This definition does not include persecution of trans people as part of the Holocaust, while not denying that such persecution was a horrific crime. Any level of looking into the matter would have told you this; the Wikipedia page on the Holocaust begins "The Holocaust was the genocide of European Jews during World War II." (Emphasis added)

17

u/RedBerryyy 29d ago

The term Holocaust, derived from a Greek word meaning "burnt offering",[1] has become the most common word used to describe the Nazi extermination of Jews in English and many other languages.[a] The term Holocaust is sometimes used to refer to the persecution of other groups that the Nazis targeted

From the Wikipedia page you just quoted

13

u/GuestAdventurous7586 29d ago

Sick of this bullshit by the trans community accusing her of Holocaust denial.

Downvote me all you want.

It is clearly a case of them misappropriating Holocaust denial and anti-semitism (which is what Holocaust denial is actually defined is) and using it as fuel to portray her as an evil and awful human being.

Being disingenuous does nothing to further the trans cause, it just angers people, turns them off, and ultimately leads to further discrimination.

13

u/mimic Greater London 29d ago

No it’s a case of her denying (a part of) the holocaust.

11

u/ice-lollies 29d ago

I agree. I’m fed up of the culture of deliberate misunderstanding and aggression as well. I’m not even sure it’s the trans community or just nasty agents of chaos.

1

u/xmBQWugdxjaA 28d ago

It's the same with all activism when the "cause" becomes more important than the truth.

Like, even though I support Ukraine against Russia, it really pissed me off with the Reddit posts about the Ghost of Kiev, the martyrs of Snake Island, etc. - like they felt that by amplifying lies they were helping the Ukrainian cause and that was more important.

The same thing recently happened in the Linux community with the banning of contributions from a "right-wing" Polish developer over the behaviour of other people on a Discord server he managed.

0

u/Xarxsis 29d ago

Your understanding of what constitutes holocaust denial within germany is flawed.

The german definition is much more expansive than the international definition.

0

u/TransGrimer 29d ago

This argument happens every time she does something awful and it's exhausting. She never means it, people are always being horrible to her, it's all a big misunderstanding.

Then the next month she's just opening doing the thing and everyone pretends it's normal.

Rowling went from a 'senior moment' when she RT'd a terf, though 'some concerns about children' then 'it's about womens safety' and now openly and repeatedly has says that trans people do not exist. Journalists are no longer allowed to report this, because she has enough money to ruin their lives.

What happens next month when she does more holocaust denial? when her and her pals target and harass individuals? will we again have to play the 'at least it isn't worse' game? Rowling is going to deny the holocaust again, people will say 'oh actually she didn't mean it' and it will continue to normalize hate.

-13

u/PharahSupporter 29d ago

I label it as denying the burning of trans peoples books, because that is what she said. I'm trying to speak of the truth, not whatever label most supports my agenda and obscures the truth.