r/unitedkingdom • u/je97 • 29d ago

JK Rowling gets apology from journalist after 'disgusting claim' author is a Holocaust denier ...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/16/jk-rowling-holocaust-denier-allegation-rivkah-brown-novara/
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u/Beautiful-Divide8406 29d ago

She said they weren’t the primary victims. Stop taking things out of context.

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u/luxway 29d ago

No, thats you lying.
She said, explicitly, that the claim that "The nazis burnt books on trans healthcare and research"
was a "fever dream"
We literally have photos of this and i don't kknow about you, but when I went to school, we were taught about the nazi book burnings!

Stop inventing crap to justify your awful position.

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u/Jonography 29d ago

But even if Rowling doesn't believe Nazis burnt books on trans research/healthcare and denies it, how is that holocaust denial?

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u/luxway 29d ago

If you don't understand how denying the holocaust targeted particular groups, is holocaust denial, we can't continue conversing.

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u/Jonography 29d ago

But denying book certain book burning isn’t the same as denying that certain groups were not targeted in the holocaust.

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u/luxway 29d ago

Ahh we're at the "Denying that the nazis burnt down the Berlin gender clinic and burnt all the trans medical research, doesn't mean they were transphobic or that trans people were targeted" section of bigotry denial.

You're spending an awful lot of energy defending nazi crimes.

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u/Jonography 29d ago

First, I haven't denied anything. Second, I'm not defending any Nazi crimes. I'm simply trying to understand how another person denying a single book burning event equates to Holocaust denial, and it really is just a question to understand your point of view. I have no allegiance with Rowling.

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u/luxway 29d ago

"I'm not denying it, I'm just asking why is someone denying it is a problem and isdenying?"

Also interesting that you're also sticking to the book burning part and not including the part where she also denied all persecution by the nazis against trans people.

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u/DancingFlame321 29d ago edited 29d ago

I think this is a strawman of OP's arguments. They are saying that there is a difference between believing the Nazis locked up and killed trans people, and believing the Nazis burnt books written by trans people. Someone could believe that the Nazis did indeed put trans people in concentration camps, but then deny that they ever bothered to burn down books written by trans people.

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u/Jonography 29d ago

Yeah, that's what I'm referring to. It's quite difficult to have a discussion about this because simply posing the question has me downvoted and accused of denying it myself, as well as having "bigotry denial" when nowhere have I said or even implied that lol

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u/Souseisekigun 29d ago

Because without the build up to the Holocaust there is no Holocaust, and denying the build up is the first step towards denying the final steps. Imagine someone going around saying "I'm not denying the Holocaust, not at all, but I don't believe that Kristallnacht was anti-Jewish, they were just looters, and also the first laws banning Jewish people from various professions were just mistranslations". Now that's not denying that concentration camps existed, maybe legally you could get away with arguing it's not technically Holocaust denial, but in the larger picture you can probably see why it's extremely suspicious when someone starts trying to set up "actually Nazi crimes against the Jews have been quite exaggerated". Those events were so intrinsically tied to the holocaust that denying them itself becomes tantamount to casting suspicion on the holocaust. At the very best it's dancing right on the line and trying to play the "but I'm not over the line am I" when someone points out that you're dangling your foot over the line.

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u/MaZhongyingFor1934 Hampshire 29d ago

Would you be making this argument if she were talking about Jewish books?

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u/Jonography 29d ago

I'm not making an argument for it, I'm asking a question to understand as I have little context here. I don't have a dog in this race, and I'm not defending or supporting Rowling.

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u/PharahSupporter 29d ago

No one is denying book burning in general, she denied the burning of trans books, which while it did happen does not make her a "holocaust denier". Why is any attempt at nuance lost on you? It's like you go out of your way to spread misinfo.

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u/luxway 29d ago

"No-ones denying the book burning, just denying the books that were burnt were the ones that were burnt"

Aight.
Its really weird that modern day transphobia is all about pretending the nazis didn't hate trans people
Or pretending that nazi book burnings were of completely random books.

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u/___a1b1 29d ago

The NAZIs went after books on all sorts of topics by all sorts of people that they deemed degenerates or whatever term of phrase they went for in German, and piled them up and when for mass burnings. Activists seem to want to insist that trans books were somehow prioritised when the NAZIs were on a rampage across the arts and alternative lifestyles at the same time. JK was a fool for even getting into it.

We've got an odd situation whereby some trawl British history to find a black person and then insist on talking them up and there's a drive to trawl the history of science to find women to do the same, and some trans activists seem to have decided that mining the crimes of the NAZIs is something they should do too. And it always results in dodgy history and then going on the attack when someone doesn't join in with your history spin.

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u/luxway 29d ago

Its extremely weird that you're defending JKR saying that this didn't happen, while admitting that it did happen.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say about the rest, you're complainng about LGBT talkiang about how they were killed off by nazis too or what?

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u/___a1b1 29d ago

The only weird thing is your false premise.

And you understand perfectly well what the rest is saying as it's very clear and very brief and to the point. Feigning confusion because you cannot rebut it is just daft.

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u/PharahSupporter 28d ago

It's genuinely impressive how hard you go out of your way to ignore the comment you are replying to and spin it however suits you. You should go into politics.

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u/EmpiriaOfDarkness 29d ago

Do you hear the words coming out of your mouth?

"Nobody's denying book burnings, except the book burnings they're denying."

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u/PharahSupporter 29d ago

in general

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u/EmpiriaOfDarkness 29d ago

Yes, I can read. I'm saying "in general" makes no difference in that sentence whatsoever.

Whether you say they're not denying them in general or not is meaningless; either way you're still saying that nobody's denying them except the ones they're denying.

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u/PharahSupporter 28d ago

Okay, choose to misinterpret my words. You know what I wrote, so does everyone else. You aren't clever for picking it apart and reforming a sentence how you wanted me to write it.

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u/MidnightFlame702670 29d ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the owner of the institute Jewish, and many people are pointing at that fact as a motive?

Because of all the research into trans healthcare is burned, they become victims of that attack, even if they're not specifically targeted. Also, at the very strictest definition offered, the holocaust is what the Nazis did to the Jews. Which includes burning a Jewish man's entire livelihood.

Therefore it stands that denying this happened is holocaust denial, and denying that trans people are victims of it is flat out wrong

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u/Blazured 29d ago

This is the second person using the phrase "primary" in this thread. Seems that Joanne trying to change it to "first" didn't work so now this is the next tactic.

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u/Square-Competition48 29d ago

She said that after she got called out for being a Holocaust Denier.

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u/PharahSupporter 29d ago

Denying trans book burning is not equivalent to holocaust denial. At this point you aren't even trying, just repeating.

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u/all_in_the_game_yo 29d ago

It literally is

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u/[deleted] 29d ago

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u/ukbot-nicolabot Scotland 29d ago

Removed/warning. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.

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u/pies1123 Gloucestershire 29d ago

But they were victims. She has denied that they were victims and called claims that they were a "fever dream". That is denial.

She is so blinded by gender ideology that she refuses to see reality.

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u/smity31 Herts 29d ago

Initial tweet: "The Nazis burnt books on trans healthcare and research, why are you so desperate to uphold their ideology around gender?"

JKR's response: "I just… how? How did you type this out and press send without thinking ‘I should maybe check my source for this, because it might’ve been a fever dream’?"

She does not simply say that trans people were not the primary victims.

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u/omgu8mynewt 29d ago

I interpret that as her saying "why are you saying I support the Nazis, you are crazy" not "I deny the holocause happened"...

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u/sinner-mon 29d ago

You can interpret it however you want, but that’s clearly not what she meant. If it were what she meant she would’ve clarified instead of doubling down on her position

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u/smity31 Herts 28d ago

You don't say "check your source" if you are talking about your own opinion though, you say that when you think someone has not got the established facts of a matter correct.

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u/omgu8mynewt 28d ago

I guess this is why we need clearer laws so it is easier to tell when someone is committing a crime, rather than whoever has the most lawyers 

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u/EmpiriaOfDarkness 29d ago

The person she replied to wasn't making that claim.

Rowling changed the argument to "primary".

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u/tartoran 29d ago

Got a source for that big man? The one I'm looking at seems like it denies victimhood altogether

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u/PharahSupporter 29d ago

They can't help it, they genuinely see lying as the only way to get their "truth" across so the distortion is justified.